Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

There's been some talk hereabouts about launching online campaigns to crowdfund TF/TG projects. Lately, I've been wondering whether it's possible to put together an entire feature film budget from online donations by the TF community. If not a 90-minute movie, then perhaps a half-hour video/film with halfway decent actors and special effects?

Is the community large enough to pull off such a thing, if the film's concept makes enough people interested? "Kung Fury" was a similar kind of project funded on Kickstarter, and the results are pretty spectacular, considering the resources David Sandberg had to work with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

No.

Besides, it would be ridiculous to even suggest it without a strong script or proof of concept. Nobody was mistakenly funding someone's porn production when they threw money at Kung Fury. TF/TG isn't a genre of film, it is a kink.

There is no one here even remotely on Sandberg's level or saaviness with film communities to even suggest it.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

I think you're taking an excessively cynical attitude here. In the event someone DID provide a strong script/proof of concept (let's hypothetically say from moi ;) ), the so-called "porn" aspects of such a script could be easily played down for something more...reputable, shall we say?

"An American Werewolf in London" is a mainstay for many TF enthusiasts, but that hasn't stopped it from becoming a horror/comedy classic enjoyed by people outside of the TF circle. The same principle could easily apply here. If the so-called fetishistic details of a TF/TG film was secondary to an engaging story (and the Kickstarter itself emphasized the story over the transformation/transformations), I believe it would have a chance.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

This kind of thing has to start with an idea. Once a good idea for a film is created, do you know a director and a crew that will work for free?

Yes, free. The money from Kickstarter will fund a lot of the film, but it won't pay a bunch of salaries. Generally, you're working on the movie for free and paying the actors and for equipment with Crowdfunding.

I'm not saying this is impossible, but you'd need an idea that tens of thousands of people would want to fund, and you need a crew to pull it off.

You would also need a sample of concept, which can't just be drawings if you want a successful film Kickstarter.

What I'd suggest is for someone to shoot an amazing short TG film. 5 minutes max. Then, if it's great, make that into a full film proof of concept Kickstarter.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying film-making; GOOD film-making, is a LOT of work. The only person I know with the drive to do so thus far is Ms Mako. There have been others from the community, but they are clearly not theater-ready. Professionally lit, acted, edited, directed, etc.. It's a lot of stuff, and more work than you can imagine. S'all.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Also, I'd suggest IndieGoGo over Kickstarter. That way you don't need to reach a goal to keep the money.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Please don't treat me like a naive fool. I'm well aware of all the stark realities involved with making a film, even a 5-minute film. I've already completed several short movies in the past, so I can't say I appreciate the blithe assumption that I'm a lazy novice (even if you didn't intend to come across that way).

All the same, the IndieGoGo idea is definitely a good one. I'll investigate further. Thank you.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Maybe Mako would be willing to shed some light, I mean she's worked on numerous films of her own, both long and short with varying levels of effects. I mean personally, I think the transformation in The Interview was better in many aspects then the transformation of Eleven and The interview was released free and Eleven was 30 minutes long.

The interview showed more internal transformation then Eleven did and had much better effects. I guess having Mako playing a main character kept the actor salary down a bit.

According to IMDB, Last Piece had a budget of $8.5K estimated, god knows what that would be 11 years later. Oddly enough, Eleven isn't listed on Mako's IMDB page, guess she didn't actually make that one and stole it.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Well...the question is whether kickstarter/gofundme is the best way to go....patreon might work as an alternative. I know folks on youtube who make several thousand a month easily - either per video or per month.

If you were to produce it in short chapters - guaranteed a segment per month - it might work better (granted you'd need to develop an audience) but you could do that with more teaser chapters and character development. Would also allow more time for effects development on a budget.

Soooo, really....spreading something out in terms of the timeline would potentially even let you do a more "realistic" transformation using a trans-actor/tress - even though the transformation would be compressed in the story timeline.

Just thinking about commentaries I've watched/read about low budget movie-making. I think Peter Jackson spent several years just filming Bad Taste a little bit every weekend. That's just one example.

Also...with patreon, you have a lot more artistic freedom and you're not locking donors in and promising them something concrete that *might* wind up being not fully deliverable in the long term.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Is this forum about just being pricks to one another and manga scans now? Because that's what this shit looks like these days...

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Heh, I was afraid I was the only one to take notice. :rolleyes:

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

I like to think that being a prick is still fairly optional.

On-topic, Otto, obviously crowdfunding can help you to get projects like this off the ground. However, the key word here is 'can'. You can't rely solely on crowdfunding to fund your entire project and before you can even start crowdfunding you still need to do your due diligence and have a proper plan laid out before going around asking people for money. So yeah, it can help with the funding, but thinking that you can finance a whole feature length movie through crowd funding, especially in a niche fetish community like ours is a bit misguided imo.

It's a tool, but in the end you still have put in the work and use the tool in the correct way.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Eduart, I appreciate the advice, but for the umpteenth time, I'm well aware of all the ins and outs involved with getting a movie off the ground, and I'm getting exhausted with all the assumptions I don't. I realize I can't rely solely on crowdfunding, but I wanted to investigate the option anyway.

It doesn't seem that way to me (unless you've been visiting the "Politics" thread).

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Apologies if it came across that way; I didn't feel like I was making any assumptions, I was just giving my two cents on the question you asked:

You asked if it would be possible to put together "an entire feature film budget" and to that my answer is no. I don't have much to make any assumptions from, since I don't have any info on you or what you do besides from what you've put in this topic.

I do think you're acting a bit defensively to everyone so far in this topic. So far people have just tried to help you and give advice. No one has called you any names or actively tried to belittle you. Please return us the favor by not acting like we're attacking you personally.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Hmmm...

The only one acting like a prick in this thread is you, Doc, given that no one has attacked you in any way, or even inferred that you're a "naive fool". You're the one seeing insults to your intelligence where none exist, and habitually responding with a highly indignant and defensive response to folks simply pointing out the difficulty of accomplishing what you're proposing. You seem to do this a lot, actually, whether you're in the "Politics" thread (where such behavior is 100% acceptable), or in any other thread (where such behavior is NOT 100% acceptable).

If you want input on an idea, great! That's part of why this forum exists. But stop acting like people are attacking you or questioning your "film experience" whenever they're simply pointing out realistic obstacles.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

ANYWAY....

To bring it back to the topic at hand, I think that such a crowdfunded campaign of a TF/TG movie with practical effects could work only if the potential filmmakers already have a "portfolio" of past works to show.

If you're asking people to throw money at a project wherein there is no résumé to look at, you're going to have a bad time.

In other words, if you can't show that you can already do it, you won't get the money to do it. Rick Baker didn't start out making "An American Werewolf in London". He started out making effects like this.

You need work under your belt before you can ask the public for funding. Are there any filmmakers with an established body of work that have expressed a desire to make a TF/TG movie (or even short) with practical effects?

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

same deal with Rob Bottin, Stan Winston and a whole host of others they all worked low budget things to before becoming giants of their time.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Agreed. Now, if you said that you had someone like Rob Bottin on board with making your TG/TF movie or short, and could show that, I think a crowdfunding campaign for such a movie or short would work spectacularly.

However, if you don't have anything to show the funders (which are essentially investors), you might get one or two donations and that's it.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

That will ONLY end poorly for what is being proposed.

Proof of concept is a minimum before you even move forward with the Asking for Money phase, whether crowdfunding or not. I can't believe this isn't blatantly obvious, but building hype before you even have a working prototype is all the rage. Nobody wants to throw money at VISION (tm).

All this thread has produced so far is a "Wouldn't it be nice?" circlejerk. You have witnessed a lot of false promises banking on the dreams of others, haven't you? The cynicism is understandable.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Keep could be nicer about it, but he has the point. With nothing to show from the beginning, nobody will or should fund a project. And honestly, I would be sceptical about anything until proven otherwise.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Absolutely. The problem is, I'm not particularly interested in hearing it. For one reason or another, this thread has suddenly overflowed with people who seem hellbent on reminding me about the big scary ogre called "reality," even though I'd argue their own perception of reality is questionable.

Their cumulative message basically boils down to, "You're gonna get your ass kicked." Guys, believe me, you're preaching to the choir here. As someone who's had his ass kicked repeatedly by life, I've grown numb to the pain. What I'm hoping to do is build up my credentials in the industry elsewhere, so when I DO launch a project like this on Kickstarter or IndieGoGo or wherever, more folks will be ready to offer their hard-earned bread. It'll be a slow, agonizing process, but I'll do what it takes to get there.

But hey, thanks for showing me I probably shouldn't look for potential investors here. Few people are less miserly than a bunch of "realistic" assholes.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

When that slow, agonizing process produces something worth giving a damn about, feel free to come back here and share that.

There are things to be hopeful about. You take it as an insult that you're getting the response you are when the fucking ludicrousness of your opening post set the tone.

When did the topic shift from the general idea of crowdfunding projects for TG/TF aims to you? Oh, that's right, when you did that because you heard something discouraging to your plans. This whole fucking post wasn't about discussion, it was fishing for encouragement because you had doubts, ya?

And you fucks wonder why I get this way when someone is this disingenuous about their intent and motivations?

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

*mic drop*

Pretty much the only thing to add at this point.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Anyone wants fish n' chips? because this thread is full of salt...

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Get a phone start shooting. Get a camera start shooting. Make content. Make a Patreon, like, I dunno: https://www.patreon.com/Coomanfu. Fill it with content. Quit talking about the hard life of a struggling artist, and make stuff people would want to buy.

Maybe don't take a snotty tone to people you want to give you money.

If trends continue, I'll afford a nice camera and edit bay in only 119 years! :D (in actuality, working towards getting my own equipment in my own way through hard work of other ways.)

No one *actually* gives a shit about the hard life struggles of the artiste, because all of humanity is struggling. No one wants to hear you whine about having to get a 'real job,' because we all have to work 'real jobs' to pay the rent. Maybe you'll luck out and not have to, maybe not. But the only way that happens is if you make work that makes money so you can quit your day job.

Other people make it work, so make it work. Accomplish things with what you got.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

I'm really interested in making an anime series for Max's Big Bust - A Captain Nekorai Tale, but it'd cost in the order of hundreds of thousands to make. I know an animation company and I've worked with them in the past, so it is doable but the problem is getting the money together, and I don't think Kickstarter is the right platform for raising funds of that magnitude. Less and less people use the site, it's an absolute nightmare to raise money on there now.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Everybody, just get a bit chill, okay?:) Otto, if you look, there is some honestly good advice in here. Just ignore the stuff that offends you and focus on the good stuff.

Rest of you guys that are kinda talking down to the dude, back up a little. He says he knows what he's getting into. Whatever he does will rise or fall on its own merit. If you got good advice or critique,give it.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Honestly, V1701, this has been one of the more depressing experiences I've had on this forum. What was meant to be an innocuous inquiry took a very sudden, nasty turn. I'm not sure what the deal is with some of these people; maybe they're lashing out because of their own unfulfilled dreams. I try to listen to good advice when I hear it, but even good advice doesn't amount to much if it's delivered patronizingly.

Whatever the case may be, I think I'm going to take a break for a few days, at least until these guys have succeeded enough in their own lives to the point where they don't feel they have to infect others with their bitterness.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Run along children, nothing to see here.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

How about we think more before we start calling people scammers and harassing people?

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

I do not understand what you are trying to do OP when someone gives you good advice and you imply that they treat you like a naive fool by stating that you do not want to apply reality when it comes to investors or even interested about the basics.

If you have no inclination to listen to us in a serious manner, why should we treat your potential questions regarding folks willing to "offer their hard-earned bread" to you seriously?

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

This thread is weird. Where have the all the mods gone? Also sorry I'm late to the party, I don't hang out in this forum. Otto, you are overly defensive in many threads, but in this particular case, I understand where you're coming from.

Why is everyone so certain that a good movie takes thousands of dollars to make? I understand that everyone wants to see hollywood movie-quality transformation, but that is getting way ahead of ourselves. There are many people who have this kink who are not speaking and it seems like an large portion of them work in creative fields.

I think we can crowd-source skills and equipment. If we seriously wanted to do a movie, we'd have to figure out the minimum amount of crew we'd need and then pick a date and a city to meet up. Ideally, everyone would pay for their own transportation, housing could somehow be arranged by a host, and any money raised would pay reliable craftsmen (perhaps sourced from the furry community, in my case) to create props first and pay the crew second.

The proof of concept (the script, concept drawings and inspiration pieces) should be a group effort-- if only we had a forum to post on, oh wait.

But in order for any of that to happen, we need to stop acting like abuse victims just because the first person we trusted to make a movie was a thief. There are plenty of honest artists out there in many genres and the only reason we haven't already made a movie is because we are kept quiet by shame.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Uh...thanks?

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

I spent years in forums asking people to help back when I started The Kiss and other projects. Even Paradox Alice. I was suprised I got so few responses but was told many peeps just didnt want to expose themselves... so I looked outside the TF community to find people to help make a lot of what I did. It is possible... but it takes a lot of work... decent script... and you have to really be passionate about it all and seem overly prepared and convince everyone you can make it and will finish it. So much is about the pitch and how to sell it to the right people first. There is always a Pre Production phase... Production Phase... and Post Production Phase... and most Independent Film Makers tend to only wanna focus on Production and get themselves in trouble not planning and focusing as much on the other two.

Just my two cents ��

- Miss Mako -

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Your two cents mean everything to me, Mako. Thank you.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Yeah, same, Mako. It is ambitious, and I wasn't sure if it was something I wanted to commit to for a long time. I don't want to commit to anything unless there are people willing to work with me, partially because I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't want to let anyone down. Other people hold you accountable. I've been playing with photos, to gain trust within the community, but I'm nowhere near ready to play with video yet.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Moderators were here. I asked for chill and other mods removed some of the more incendiary posts.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

Again....if you're starting from scratch, why the pressure to make a full length movie up front? Lots of film-makers start with shorts - get the concepts working, techniques, etc. Many feature length films started out as shorts and got re-adapted once things worked out better.

I still think the Patreon concept is a way to build interest - particularly since you can post behind the scenes clips, film journals, etc - while building funding month to month as you develop the entire thing. Particularly since - not having done a full film before, it may be difficult to plan a good film-making budget.

As a side note, there was a production company started by the guys who did "Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning" - and followed it up with "Iron Sky" that was built around a crowd-funding investment concept and I think you can submit requests for investment/funding. Don't remember the name. There were some posts on twichfilm.net about it way back when but I lost track.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

I agree. Trying to do short clips is the best way to start. I have done some very simple effects that take advantage of low lighting and imagination. I think I have the ingenuity to make better clips, and I am trying to, though I am a little worried about my face being out there.

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing who would want to meet up before any sort of patreon/kickstarter/fund-raising happens. From there, finding out who has what skills would be my next priority. If we have the right people, it becomes way more likely that some content will be produced.

Edit: btw sorry if I made the moderator feel unappreciated. you are real and I see youuuu.

Re: Kickstarter-funded TF/TG movies
 

No problem. I just don't always announce what we do.