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flango 11-02-2007 04:17 PM

My TG Sequence
 
1 Attachment(s)
I got bored so decided to try and make a GIF of me being TG'd. I used parts of a request that hmmm did for me, and which I am still grateful. Here it is, its not smooth, but just the pictures put together

SdazVarence 11-02-2007 04:18 PM

Thats cool

genderhazard 11-02-2007 04:54 PM

very nice

lampy 11-02-2007 04:57 PM

Finally some good stuff on the forums with a few other threads.
^_^

flango 11-02-2007 05:16 PM

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Have done another two now, but they're both winking ones. Which do you think looks better?

Headshot 11-02-2007 06:01 PM

slower is better.

TroyXavier 11-03-2007 04:53 AM

Short but cute transformation. I like the slower one as well.

reptileking 11-03-2007 04:57 AM

yeah the slower one but great job on the GIF

personEL 11-03-2007 05:15 AM

Freakin' awesome.

luna_blue12z 11-03-2007 06:10 AM

Awesome!
 
Oh, very nice animated gif. You just have to LOVE a guy getting transformed into a cute and sexy playboy bunny.

Thanks a bunch for making and sharing it. :)

L.

TrunKated 11-03-2007 06:12 AM

Your drawing style is great!

ToboR 11-03-2007 08:16 AM

Some nice GIF compositions. It's always good to see sequences being played out, even in a sort of "snapshot" form like that. And I probably don't need to tell you this, but I like the slower wink better as well.

hmmm! 11-03-2007 08:54 AM

Hey, fun work on the GIF flango! Glad to see you're still enjoying that sequence! 'Twas an enjoyable pleasure. And I have to agree with those who've said they like the slower wink better.

flango 11-03-2007 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrunKated (Post 119056)
Your drawing style is great!

I didnt draw it, Hmmm!! did

And thanks for the compliments guys. Will try to do some more, plus if you lot want one done, send me a sequence of you getting any process done and i'll give it a shot

Very_Good_Karma 11-03-2007 05:29 PM

First of all, compliments to Hmmm! on the sequence; it's both technically excellent and in a cheerful style I really enjoy.

Secondly, flango, thanks for sharing the GIFs! I think that animation of your avatar winking has a lot of potential. It kind of looks like you gave every frame the same duration, though- you could improve it immensely by telling your gif animator to leave the tounge frame up longer. Also, it shouldn't be too hard to fix that 'shakey camera'.

Very_Good_Karma 11-03-2007 06:43 PM

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Ugh, I got a little carried away with this. I'm still an amateur with GIF animation, but it's one of my few art skills, so I started poking at your animation, and I ended up polishing it a little bit to show you what I was talking about. Sorry if I'm imposing.

Your file says it was made with a GIF Movie Gear demo; does the demo give you timing controls? I'm working with a ten year old version of Microsoft GIF Animator, but I've found it's pretty solid.

Ran 11-03-2007 07:09 PM

Flango *is* the animator (not said in a harsh way). Anyways, I have to say I always liked that sequence, and it works nicely giffed up.

Anyways, flango, if you could give the Test-0 rendition of two memes merged here: http://test-0.deviantart.com/art/Ran...uence-59175567 an attempt I would be flattered. Not sure how you could get it to work coherently unless you split it into body sections though.

genderhazard 11-03-2007 08:45 PM

Forgive my technical ignorance, since these images are very close together, wouldn't morphing prolong the process and assist with the frames per second to give the gif a more fluid rather than flip book appearance?


I ask not only for theses sequences but perhaps a collaborated effort using the strength and weaknesses of each of these programs to create better process.

Very_Good_Karma 11-03-2007 11:45 PM

Genderhazard are you talking about flango's winking animation or his GIF of [Hmmm!]'s original sequence?

If you mean the winking animation- I have never seen a reference to using a morphing program to generate transitional frames for a traditional animation; it's an interesting idea but I suspect it would look very weird or very smudgy.

If you're talking about taking the four stages from [Hmmm!]'s original sequence and morphing each one into the succeeding one, that might produce something interesting; but generally that sort of morphing technique looks bad as a result of heavily leaning on the 'key frames'- you get sort of a butter-on-a-frying-pan effect. Plus, [Hmmm!]'s sequence of flango isn't really suitable for morphing because the pose changes; the morphing program wouldn't animate the arms going behind the back, it would morph them out of existence.

genderhazard 11-04-2007 06:36 AM

The wink is a two frame animation the gif works good for that, excellent work BTW.

I was initially talking about the original sequence. Frames 1 and 2 looked close enough that I thought a morph might work.

I could see that the arm position between frames 3 and 4 would not morph well.

Here, different arm positions and facial expressions done on different layers turned on and off to save pencil mileage might work.

Hmmm! sequence of Flango is nice, but may be off enough to make what I'm thinking about too rough or unworkable.

But I more had an eye towards a future project perhaps a group effort.

My understanding is Hmmm! is accepting commissions. So I was wondering more along the lines of using various tools to produce a process effect.

I don't know if you can mix morphs and Gifs

Morph to make a jaw line smoother, Gif to have a earing appear.

Morph to have breast expansion Gif to have a button pop or nipples perk up.

That sort of thing. Drawings could be created to work within the limitations/advantages of each and assembled into a complete package.

So would this be fairly easy to accomplish?

flango 11-04-2007 09:11 AM

Thnaks everyone, I appreciate your compliments. I only used Paint and then a GIF animator I found online, so nothing fancy

Ran- I'll give it a shot for ya, but cant promise it being smooth

Karma- I like your version, but you missed the tounge out, which I'm gonna extend on my version when I get some time

flango 11-04-2007 04:04 PM

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Here we go Ran, hope its alright

Plus, I edited the wink

Very_Good_Karma 11-04-2007 04:09 PM

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Flango- Actually, I did a version with the raspberry first, but with the tounge only being in one frame I felt it was still too choppy and edited the tounge out in paintshop. See below for that version. More power to you if you can manage a transitional frame for the tounge; I felt the image was too small and fuzzy to show it clearly.

Genderhazard- The wink is not a two frame animation- It has three transitional frames just for the eyelid, which I think Flango all made himself. The winking animation I posted has eight frames all together, and the one below has nine.

I'm not clear on how much you understand about animation in general, and I was trying hard not to patronize in my post- but maybe I should be more thorough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genderhazard
...since these images are very close together, wouldn't morphing prolong the process and assist with the frames per second to give the gif a more fluid rather than flip book appearance?

A GIF animator program strings together a series of GIFs and makes them a single file, which web browsers then display sequentialy. The user can determine the length of time each frame appears. This means that an animation with five frames can last 5 seconds or .05 seconds.

The smoothness of the animation depends on how many frames you show per second; to give a 5 second animation more frames-per-second, you need more frames total, showing finer stages of the same action over the same length of time. I am assuming your idea is to use a morphing program to generate those additional frames. Using the word 'prolong' kind of threw me off, but I guess you were refering to the tendency of people making process sequences into animated GIFs to make those GIFs run really fast- they don't actually have to do this. My animation below has fewer frames than Flango's original- it just stops on one frame for 4 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genderhazard
I don't know if you can mix morphs and Gifs

GIFs are limited to 256 colors, but a decent graphics program will reduce the color depth of any digital image and convert it to GIF format, with varying results- and any set of GIFs with the same dimensions can then be strung together into an animated GIF. You can also export the frames of a video as stills and then convert those to GIFs, and then animate them. Morphing programs to my understanding generally output video files, but it shouldn't be hard to get a set of stills from one.

Composing animated GIFs is extremely easy- people use them because they are versatile and portable- but they are not a great medium for quality.

If you are looking to commision someone to make a quality animated sequence, you will probably get a much better final product working with Adobe Flash; Flash's vector graphics are ideal for showing smooth transformations. I don't know how many flash artists hang around The Process, but Smith 6x7 might be a good place to start- he has animated other people's sequences many times before, and maybe he can recommend someone else if he's not interested.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go look for a free morphing program.

flango 11-04-2007 04:13 PM

I like that version, Karma

Test-0 11-04-2007 04:29 PM

Wow, thats some great work with animating the sequence I did for Ran. :D How much work did it take to blend all the changes together, or did I somehow forget how closely each frame I drew was to being an animation? :)

flango 11-04-2007 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test-0 (Post 119375)
Wow, thats some great work with animating the sequence I did for Ran. :D How much work did it take to blend all the changes together, or did I somehow forget how closely each frame I drew was to being an animation? :)

I did the main part in about 45 minutes, then I had to make the eyes to blink, so was doing that and the ears for about 1 and a half hours. Good fun :D

genderhazard 11-04-2007 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119371)
Genderhazard- The wink is not a two frame animation- It has three transitional frames just for the eyelid, which I think Flango all made himself. The winking animation I posted has eight frames all together, and the one below has nine.

Now that I look at it I do see that the motion is more than two frames.

While I have a better than average traditional animation know how, my understanding of how computer animation is conducted is lacking so I thank you for the tutorial Karma. :)

Very_Good_Karma 11-04-2007 05:26 PM

Flango, I *really* like your new avatar! Great Crop.

I'm also impressed by your cropping on Test-0's Ran TG Sequence, and all the little extra transitional touches you put in- but I loaded it up into MS GIF Animator, and you *still* aren't varying your frame timing at all. I think that's really holding your work back. You did a nice kludge on your latest raspberry animation, with all the extra frames, but you'll kill your filesize doing that.

If the GIF Movie Gear demo won't adjust timing, I'd be happy to send you an ancient copy of MS GIF Animator- It's really old but it's a full version. PM me with an e-mail address if you're interested.

Do you mind if I take a shot at smoothing out the Ran TG Animation a little? I don't want to appear to be trying to one-up you.

flango 11-04-2007 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119383)
Flango, I *really* like your new avatar! Great Crop.

I'm also impressed by your cropping on Test-0's Ran TG Sequence, and all the little extra transitional touches you put in- but I loaded it up into MS GIF Animator, and you *still* aren't varying your frame timing at all. I think that's really holding your work back. You did a nice kludge on your latest raspberry animation, with all the extra frames, but you'll kill your filesize doing that.

If the GIF Movie Gear demo won't adjust timing, I'd be happy to send you an ancient copy of MS GIF Animator- It's really old but it's a full version. PM me with an e-mail address if you're interested.

Do you mind if I take a shot at smoothing out the Ran TG Animation a little? I don't want to appear to be trying to one-up you.

Be my guest.

I'm still getting used to the controls of the GIF software, so don't know what to do exactly

Very_Good_Karma 11-05-2007 12:29 AM

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Well I got kind of side-tracked poking at all these things...

I tried out Genderhazard's morphing idea; long story short it won't work. Morphing programs are for photographs, not drawings- and I suspect any experienced morpher could have told me this and saved me a headache.

I tried working on the Ran TG animation, but I'm having a lot of trouble with it. Flango, it looks like you recopied and re-resized from Test-0's original for every frame of the ear-growth animation; and the copies all came out slightly different sizes. I don't know how to eliminate the wobble without redrawing the ears from scratch on a new sample. If you have some working images that you didn't resize I could work from those- otherwise I'm just gonna have to reproduce your work.

Anyway, after bouncing around on some animation related articles on Wikipedia, I got some new ideas, yanked Flango's new avatar, and came up with what you see below.

Flango, if you feel like redrawing that wink on [Hmmm!]'s original sequence, without resizing it, I could put the whole thing together with fade effects and I bet it would look fantastic.

What would be really, really awesome, would be if [Hmmm!] could draw a new 'before' image for the sequence with Flango looking normal and not gut punched already. [Hmmm!], you up to it?

Now I'm gonna go look for my old GIF optimizer- this animation is way too big.

(Argh. I never know whether forum posts should be in second or third person.)

EDIT: File optimized! Still too big to be a forum avatar, though. I'll need to prune it a little...

EDIT: Okayyy... somehow the optimizer corrupted the file. Going back to the old behemoth version.

flango 11-05-2007 03:19 AM

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I've got all the panels that I used if thats alright Karma

Very_Good_Karma 11-05-2007 05:58 AM

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Nah, I already had the low-res frames from ripping them out of your original animation. I decided to go ahead and redraw the wink on the original image, handily reminding myself of my total lack of traditional art skills. The completely 'winked' frame looks a little off to me but I can't say why. But anyway, here's the WIP.

Got any ideas on how far we can take this? I'm mostly just using it as practice, but I'd like to push it to the limit.

flango 11-05-2007 06:21 AM

Sweet man, thats is qualtiy. I was going to do one of my character Holly, but I need to refine her details a bit (and get better at drawing XD)

Very_Good_Karma 11-05-2007 06:55 AM

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Thank you! I was really afraid I got the eyelid wrong somehow- I just don't spend enough time drawing to be sure of how it's supposed to look.

I'm finding that the images that adapt most easily to GIF animation don't move anywhere where there's no change going on- in Test-0's Ran Sequence, the last three images, with the ears and tail growing, would have been better off with her body cut-and-pasted rather than drawn over and over. In a still sequence that makes you look like a hack, but ironically it makes an animation appear much more polished.

Right now I'm experimenting with cheap transitional tricks that I can pull off with my limited hardware and software. Here's the version of your avatar I did before, and my latest- which do you think looks better?

flango 11-05-2007 09:37 AM

I'd say the first of the two. The second is a bit too blurred for my liking. Wich do you prefer?

Very_Good_Karma 11-05-2007 03:12 PM

Honestly, looking at it now a day later the original looks better to me to. I was trying to get a 'camera goes out of focus, reality goes out of focus' effect but I'm not there yet.

Now that I've got the whole sequence to work with I'm kinda frustrated because there already *are* before and after pics, but they don't fit in well with the sort of simple animation I was trying to make. So now if I want to use them I have to get *really* creative.

flango 11-05-2007 03:34 PM

By getting really creative, do you mean drawing?

Very_Good_Karma 11-05-2007 03:39 PM

No, drawing is something I really can't do. Plus I don't have a scanner. I was talking about lots of crazy cropping and resampling and trying camera tricks to get all the panels in there. I've kind of bitten off a lot here, but dang it this is a fantastic sequence and it deserves the work even if it's not ideal for an animation. Then maybe I'll go back and see what I can do with the RAN tg. I'm really hitting the limits of my tools here, though.

flango 11-05-2007 03:50 PM

I'm goin to stick a request on to see if anyone could draw a sequence for either me or you to try and "GIF it up"

Very_Good_Karma 11-06-2007 05:50 AM

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I'm still working on a new animation of [Hmmm!]'s sequence, and it's rapidly becoming the most ambitious thing I've ever done. I hope it turns out alright.

[Hmmm!], I've got one frame here which would be immensely improved if you could fill in the back rim of the well where I've erased the magic blast. I'd do it myself, but I can't draw for squat. Also, if you could redraw the eyes in said panel with a bored or disappointed expression, that will help the transition into this shot and establish the surprised face as a reaction to the explosion.

If anyone else thinks they can do this sooner, please take a crack at it. And whoever works on it, please, please, do not crop, resize, resample, or convert the image to a lossy format.

Oh, and one last thing- was this sequence inspired by a meme? Can anyone point me to it?

flango 11-06-2007 06:08 AM

Found it Karma http://www.process-productions.com/f...&postcount=318

Very_Good_Karma 11-06-2007 02:50 PM

7 Attachment(s)
Thanks Flango, but do you know who wrote the meme? I'm making credits for the end and I'd like as many names as I can for it.

Still banging away, to the neglect of most everything else. I'll post the finished raspberry sequence as a teaser.

Good news! [Hmmm!]'s agreed to try and help with this. I managed a decent fill-in for the well, (below) but [Hmmm!] if you can improve on it, please do.

[Hmmm!], here are some things that you could draw to help me with the animation, roughly in order of descending usefulness:

1. A new facial expresion for just before the well-explosion. (disappointed? annoyed?) Also, I think you were trying to indicate the flash of light in the way you shaded the character's hair- could you re-shade it for normal lighting to go with the new expression.

2. An establishing panel for the wishing well, to go at the beginning. (possibly with a visible 'wishing well' sign.) I framed the first three panels to cope with the lower resolution; if you could draw the new panel at about the same size that would keep the whole thing consistent. Some framed panels are attached to give you a size guidline.

3. Pairs of close up shots of face, breasts, and hips during the transformation. I think I could use up to six. I tried making some of these from the original comic but the resolution just wasn't good enough. I'll attach some attempts later to give you an idea what I'm talking about

4. One or two small panels indicating that the character has made a wish, waited a minute, and not gotten a response, to go between the coin-toss panel and the magic blast.

Any of that that you can produce will be greatly appreciated. If you've got any questions please ask.

flango 11-06-2007 03:14 PM

I believe it was Sutibaru's TG meme, so the credit goes to him.

Plus Karma, .png format isnt friendly with the forum. Cant see them

genderhazard 11-06-2007 03:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Flango, Karma

I had the day off and was playing with the images, Unfortunately I seem to has lost(misplaced) the animation.

But here are a bunch of the images I tweeked if you want to piece them together

PM me an e-mail address and I can send them

EDIT CHANGED THE ATTACHMENTS sorry Karma thought I attached the GIF file

Interested to see what you come up with.

flango 11-06-2007 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genderhazard (Post 119761)
Flango, Karma

I had the day off and was playing with the images, Unfortunately I seem to has lost(misplaced) the animation.

But here are a bunch of the images I tweeked if you want to piece them together

PM me an e-mail address and I can send them

The first one looks a little wierd, but the second looks cool. Good job

Very_Good_Karma 11-06-2007 05:01 PM

I know the forum software doesn't really like PNG but on my browser I can still see thumbnails and download the pictures fine. I'm using PNG because I want the working samples to be high enough quality to work with and still put back into the animation if someone sees something they can do with one. [Hmmm's!] scans are okay but they're not such high resolution that I can afford to lose color data to GIFs.

Again, anyone who works with these and hopes to produce something useful, please, please, do not resize, resample, or convert the image to a lossy format. JPG is a lossy format. GIF is not lossy but you will lose color data when converting High Color images to GIF. I converted [Hmmms!] JPG scans to PNG as soon as I started working with them; repeatedly editing and then saving JPGs is like making photocopies of photocopies.

hmmm! 11-06-2007 06:34 PM

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Right, so I went ahead and did what you asked on the well panel. I went ahead and saved it as a PNG since that's what you wanted. Let me know if I screwed up. Also, I'm using a new scanner now so I'm not sure how this will compare with the old scans. If you need me to rescan both pages of the sequence I can. I also don't remember what size I scanned everything originally so I may just have to scan it all again anyway if it doesn't match up.

I redrew the well here and there. It's not much, but hopefully it resembles something more of a cylindar now.

I'll do those other things as time permits.
.
.
.
.
.
*thumbs up*

genderhazard 11-06-2007 07:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is my days effort, Hmmm! would you be up for more of these?

I know it could use some work but its my first attempt at one of these.

flango 11-07-2007 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genderhazard (Post 119828)
Here is my days effort, Hmmm! would you be up for more of these?

I know it could use some work but its my first attempt at one of these.

Good one GH, but I dont like the way you've merged the two of the memes together. Plus, that smile on me is scary

genderhazard 11-07-2007 03:51 AM

Sorry to here you didn't like the Meme combo :( I though the pictures were close enough that I could get away with it the wedding dress at the end is admittedly tacked on.

I'm not all that satisfied how it turned out either ( my nature I see all the flaws) I would have liked 'your" hand to move through your hair but that is beyond my skill set.

Anyway, enjoyed playing with your images, let me know if you want me to unmerge the memes or remove it altogether. Either is fine it was more an exercise and as I said not completely satisfied with the results.

BTW The smile is a bit dopey, but it was just your frown turned upside down thinking was you made the wish now you were happy it was being granted.

Very_Good_Karma 11-07-2007 05:20 AM

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Genderhazard- I'm actually really impressed with your animation. I'd considered mining [Hmmm!]'s other flango meme for images, but didn't see anything useful in it for the Bunny Meme; I really like the way you nabbed the surprised flango shot and used it for the looking-down-the-well animation. That shot helps the simple story hold together. Some other things I liked:

1. The simple coin-flip shot
2. Really liked the way you trimmed the magic blast to make it expand in the animation
3. Facial expressions in the magic-well-blast panel are better than I could have done
4. Creative use of filters at the beginning of the transformation
5. Really liked the bit with the expanding crosshatch pattern on the pants
6. That you tried to vary the frame timing appropriately

Some things I didn't like:

1. Mixing costumes in the animation is confusing
2. The animation's dimensions are WAY too huge. My GIF animator couldn't even preview it properly because it pushed the playback controls off the screen. If a web browser has to shrink the animation to display all of it, you might as well have just used a lower resolution and saved bandwidth.
3. The individual frame dimensions are also all over the place. That's going to mess up playback on occaison, and more importantly it means everything just defaults to the upper left corner. Don't do that, it's sloppy.
4. There are lots of seemingly pointless frames in the animation- blank ones that display for zero time, duplicates of previous frames, or frames who's differences seem pointless- like frames for tiny wrinkles appearing in clothing. You ought to clean those out.

More importantly, though, seeing your animation has given me a lot of new ideas- I'm really appreciating your input on this project. What programs are you using to edit the images and compose the animations?


Hmmm!- Thanks so much for the new panel! It's a terrific scan even if it's not the same size as the old one. I'm still deciding how best to use it; I've already thrown out several test animations for the well so I'll probably just start over using the new panel. Now, though, I've got the problem of trying to fit the old expressions into the new panel- looks like I'll need to get really proficient with the resampler. I've already edited the old magic blast into the frame, (see below) and expanded it to fill the empty space. It took me forever but I'm loathe to ask you to change the drawing again and receive a new scan at a new size. It was not easy imitating your vibrant style using a mouse and the airbrush tool.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to collaborate with you and other artists on animations in the future. If you'd know ahead of time the sequence was going to be animated, how would you have drawn the changing facial expressions, transformation stages, etc, differently? Can you draw on paper, scan, then change the drawing, then scan again? Or does that mess up the paper? How exactly did you make the new panel? Did you have to draw over the original sequence? If I asked you to adjust one of the images from your scans on the computer, without resizing it, could you do it?

Sorry to interrogate; thanks in advance for any answers you can give.

genderhazard 11-07-2007 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119881)
Genderhazard- I'm actually really impressed with your animation.

Thank you, the more I look at it the less I like it.

Coin toss. Ideally I would have preferred a straight side view of the coin it would have made a better flipping motion like the lines on an asterisk.

The pan in the wedding dress is to rough and as you said a bit confusing.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119881)
3. Facial expressions in the magic-well-blast panel are better than I could have done
4. Creative use of filters at the beginning of the transformation
5. Really liked the bit with the expanding crosshatch pattern on the pants

Facial expression was very easy I just used the clone tool to reposition the pupil and then painted the old location white.

The "Filters" are called "effects" in my program (Corel Paint shop pro X).- they now have released XI. very easy to do.

Expanding cross hatch is also very easy. I work backward start with Hmmm's original drawing save as a new image and paint white a portion of the hatch. save, then save as and repeat. Then when you go to put them in the animator put least hatch first. So that when it plays more hatch appears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119881)
Some things I didn't like:

2. The animation's dimensions are WAY too huge. My GIF animator couldn't even preview it properly because it pushed the playback controls off the screen. If a web browser has to shrink the animation to display all of it, you might as well have just used a lower resolution and saved bandwidth.

I went to Flango's DA page and down loaded HMMM! art. I then cropped the images. So they were the same as on the original artwork.

You had said
Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119662)
please, do not crop, resize, resample, or convert the image to a lossy format.

So I left everything original size. (partly with the though they could be shared and partly because I'm lazy and didn't know it would be problematic. If this had been planned as a animation rather than a comic the originals size could have been standardized. I'm thinking index sized. This should prevent future endeavors from being as sloppy. the Different sizes were actually the reason for those blank ones displayed for zero time. They cover the odd sizes so you don't have the guys legs hanging under the the next portion of the sequence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119662)
4. There are lots of seemingly pointless frames in the animation frames who's differences seem pointless- like frames for tiny wrinkles appearing in clothing. You ought to clean those out.

I wasn't satisfied with that either. The illusion I was going for was running fingers through the hair while breasts expanded. I had hoped that the wrinkles would give the illusion that the cloth was being pushed away from the body. Sadly did not pull that one off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119662)
More importantly, though, seeing your animation has given me a lot of new ideas- I'm really appreciating your input on this project. What programs are you using to edit the images and compose the animations?

I'm glad this sparked some ideas. I would really hope that a group of us members could join together and lend our strenght(s) no mater what they may be to have some innovative Process TGing. I am always willing to pitch in.

So for programs I used Corel Paint Shop pro X the tools I used were Clone, Paint, Distortion Effects , & crop. The Animator I used was the free Microsoft GIF animator.

One thing I don't like about the program is the work area is so small, I like bigger windows to work in.

Thanks to Flango for letting us play with his commission and to Hmmm! for creating such wonderful drawings that told the story. (I really admire your detail on the well.

Very_Good_Karma 11-07-2007 07:27 PM

Genderhazard- Actually, I'd figured out how you'd done those things I liked as soon as I saw them- I was impressed because you'd thought of them to begin with. Like the facial expression in the 3rd panel- I would have tried to draw something new, but you came up with useful variations using what was there.

I'm sorry if there's still some confusion over the file management suggestions I gave- let me explain again more carefully:

Media files tend to get really big, and so the various formats for them- mp3, gif, avi, etc.- utilize compression algorithms when saving in order to produce the smallest file possible. These formats can be divided into two groups: lossy and lossless. Lossy formats approximate the data they're storing in order to squeeze even more information into each byte- sort of like cliff's notes for the media in question. Lossless formats, however, stick to algorithms that preserve every last bit of data- more like those miniature books that you need a magnifying glass to read.

Lossy formats aren't bad- mp3s are lossy, and they're universally awesome- but when you want to work with and edit media, the little bits they leave out pile up, gradually resulting in unusably low quality data. That's why you should use lossless formats for editing, and then convert to lossy when you're ready for distribution. I asked that people not convert to lossy formats because I wanted whatever they made to preserve quality until *I* could edit it.

The same reasons are behind resizing/resampling and using PNG rather than GIF: Every time you resize an image, it gets a little fuzzier. If you shrink it down, and then I shrink it up, I'm not going to get the same quality image you started with. GIF doesn't lose data to compression, but since it's limited to 256 colors you'll often have to lower the quality of an image in order to convert. Plus, lots of 'fuzzy' operations- like using an airbrush or resampling- will increase the color depth of a file, pushing your 256 color GIF over the limit; which means that you'll have to keep color dropping to keep saving. And decreasing color depth is another operation that 'approximates'.

So, you obviously have to decrease color depth once to make the animated GIF- keep it to once, then. You can resize/resample if you need to shrink an image down to managable dimensions- but as much as possible work with your original image first, then resize/resample when finished to get the desired dimensions.

"'Cropping" was just asking you not to cut off part of the image that I might need, 'cause it's a pain to paste it back in.

Oh- I should be clearer about this- I'm using Paintshop Pro 4.0, and in that program 'resizing' and 'resampling' both shrink or stretch an image to fit new dimensions, but they use completely different algorithms. I never actually use the 'resize' function, (it's awful) so I wasn't sure what to call it when asking people not to do it. I'm sorry if using both terms just further added to the confusion.

I've been holding back on showing what I've got so far with my own animation, but now that you've put your stuff out there, I guess I better put something up too. I'm gonna stop reworking the segments of my animation and put together a temporary full version from what I've got so far. I'll put it up here soon.

hmmm! 11-07-2007 11:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by genderhazard (Post 119828)
Hmmm! would you be up for more of these?

What do ya have in mind, Hazard?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119881)
Hmmm!- Thanks so much for the new panel! It's a terrific scan even if it's not the same size as the old one. I've already edited the old magic blast into the frame, (see below) and expanded it to fill the empty space. It took me forever but I'm loathe to ask you to change the drawing again and receive a new scan at a new size.

You're welcome for the new panel. And, Bah, don't be loathe about asking me anything. What do you need me to change and what size should I make it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 119881)
I'm trying to figure out the best way to collaborate with you and other artists on animations in the future. If you'd know ahead of time the sequence was going to be animated, how would you have drawn the changing facial expressions, transformation stages, etc, differently? Can you draw on paper, scan, then change the drawing, then scan again? Or does that mess up the paper? How exactly did you make the new panel? Did you have to draw over the original sequence? If I asked you to adjust one of the images from your scans on the computer, without resizing it, could you do it?

Sorry to interrogate; thanks in advance for any answers you can give.

I'm not entirely sure how I'd have gone about it if I knew it was for an animation.. more subtle changes to fill the gaps, I imagine. I'd try to make sure they were all the same size too, I suppose. The particular paper I used for this sequence is very eraser friendly so drawing/scanning/editing/scanning again would actually work for a while before the paper would give up. Also, the paper is thin enough to where I can see through it well enough to trace, which is how I redid that panel. And yeah, I think I could adjust images and rescan them without messing the size up.

Also, here is that establishing shot you asked for. Let me know if that's something like what you wanted. And I think the size might be more spot on with the original scans. Let me know if I'm heinously wrong.

Very_Good_Karma 11-08-2007 02:44 AM

Screen Test
 
1 Attachment(s)
[Hmmm!]- Excellent new panel, thank you so much. I slapped it in to my screen test (below) even though it's out of order.You don't need to actually add panel borders for these insertions; I'm putting them in with the computer and it wastes the edges of your drawing.

I've got a new request: Draw some clouds, from below, suitable to appear in the sky in the second panel. You don't need to redraw the inside of the well, because I'm going to paste the clouds in. It's better if they're strung out to about twice the width of the well; I'd like to try and animate them drifting overhead so that that shot isn't so lifeless. The only practical size consideration is that the line weights match.

Genderhazard- Remember your morphing idea that I thought wouldn't work after trying it? Well, apparently someone has managed to do it. Check the first file linked in this thread.

I don't know how much work that took the artist to pull off, but if you're interested in attempting to succeed where I failed you can get WinMorph for free at DebugMode.

Finally, here's an assortment of my scraps taped together into the first half of the sequence. Some of this is really rough, and a lot of the frames I've already abandoned. Also, it cuts off before the end.

Hopefully you people will get some ideas from this and maybe perhaps give some of them to me. Constructive criticism greatly appreciated.

genderhazard 11-08-2007 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmmm! (Post 120083)
What do ya have in mind, Hazard?

Nothing specific, There are several simple story's that could be done. As I wrote before, I think a team approach drawing on individual strenghts would achieve the greatest results.

So I suppose the first question is what do you like to draw. For example I really REALLY like the stone work on the well. If that is something you enjoy than stories could be tailored to things you like to draw. such as a jeckle/hyde transformation in a midevil castle. If you don't it could be a jeckle/hyde transformation in a modern laboratory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmmm! (Post 120083)
I'm not entirely sure how I'd have gone about it if I knew it was for an animation.. more subtle changes to fill the gaps, I imagine. I'd try to make sure they were all the same size too, I suppose. The particular paper I used for this sequence is very eraser friendly so drawing/scanning/editing/scanning again would actually work for a while before the paper would give up. Also, the paper is thin enough to where I can see through it well enough to trace, which is how I redid that panel. And yeah, I think I could adjust images and rescan them without messing the size up.

I suppose the methodology depends on what tools you have at your disposal.
I assume you have a photoshop like program, which allows you to worker on layers. So you could draw the head with out a face scan it in to the computer, overlay a new sheet over your original drawing and only draw facial expressions without having to redraw the entire head.

You could draw cycles basicly a loop of action like a walk that continue forever with a ony a few drawings. (think more Scooby-doo than Tom and Jerry)

flango 11-08-2007 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 120106)
[Hmmm!]- Excellent new panel, thank you so much. I slapped it in to my screen test (below) even though it's out of order.You don't need to actually add panel borders for these insertions; I'm putting them in with the computer and it wastes the edges of your drawing.

I've got a new request: Draw some clouds, from below, suitable to appear in the sky in the second panel. You don't need to redraw the inside of the well, because I'm going to paste the clouds in. It's better if they're strung out to about twice the width of the well; I'd like to try and animate them drifting overhead so that that shot isn't so lifeless. The only practical size consideration is that the line weights match.

Genderhazard- Remember your morphing idea that I thought wouldn't work after trying it? Well, apparently someone has managed to do it. Check the first file linked in this thread.

I don't know how much work that took the artist to pull off, but if you're interested in attempting to succeed where I failed you can get WinMorph for free at DebugMode.

Finally, here's an assortment of my scraps taped together into the first half of the sequence. Some of this is really rough, and a lot of the frames I've already abandoned. Also, it cuts off before the end.

Hopefully you people will get some ideas from this and maybe perhaps give some of them to me. Constructive criticism greatly appreciated.

Thats great Karma, but you missed out part of the sequence where Im turning into a girl

Very_Good_Karma 11-08-2007 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flango (Post 120117)
Thats great Karma, but you missed out part of the sequence where Im turning into a girl

Well, like I said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very Good Karma
...here's an assortment of my scraps taped together into the first half of the sequence. Some of this is really rough, and a lot of the frames I've already abandoned. Also, it cuts off before the end.

It was a screen test, that's all. I was hoping to get some feedback on things like my attempts to add color, lighting effects, animation smoothness, etc. It does have 'Work In Progress' rather prominently displayed at the end, too.

genderhazard 11-09-2007 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma (Post 120180)
I was hoping to get some feedback on things like my attempts to add color, lighting effects, animation smoothness, etc.

I like the use of colors. One of the things I thought might be interesting is to have the circle in the lighting effect represent the coin. Have it rise from the well, then have the power flash. Then perhaps a camera shake. (to represent the rumble of power coming from the well.)


I also like the bubbles rising and changing color but since they don't change shape the effect looks off.

All in all a nice work in progress. I'm also sending you a PM on another matter.

hmmm! 11-09-2007 05:09 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I don't have much time here so I'll get back to you guys in a while but I had a spot of time so I went ahead and drew some random clouds. I thought you might be able to just pick and choose which ones you'd like to use out of the bunch, if any. Is something like this kind of what you wanted, Karma?

And on the final bunny shot you use, the outfit wasn't finished putting itself together yet in the original sequence so I went and finished it up a bit. If you want to use it, there it is.

And I'm pleasantly pleased with how it seems to be coming along. A wonderful job, you've done.


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