[TrunKated]

Old argument...?

Originally Posted by genderhazard

Not really.

Yes, lol! It's a very old argument. People have been arguing about the Iraq war for a long time. Where have you been?
hehehe

So our fault we were attacked. The people who did it died in te attack anyways. Oh well?

I didn't say that, and you know it. I'm trying to say the administration had tons of warning that it ignored. I think it was EXTREME incompetance and lack of caring about our country, myself. They knew something was coming and didn't prepare or care. (I'll leave the conspiracy concepts to someone else)

They had 550 metric tons of yellow birthday cake.

Yep, this is something that's been trotted out recently as an embarrassingly pathetic attempt to pretend they viable WMD long long after the fact. This stuff you're talking about was well known by the UN inspectors and was under lock and key, as I understand it. It was sold legally to a Canadian company.

Probably best summed up by "Never start a fight but always finish it."

We tried diplomacy with Iraq, and Afganistan. It was ineffectual, and with Iraq probably gave them enough time to move the WMDs to Syria.

Perhaps, yes, with Afghanistan. But we cut off diplomacy and rushed the inspectors out of Iraq in order to start the illegal war. Simply we did not try enough diplomacy.

And why bother with the Iraq war anyway? They were not a threat to us and were being bombed by us all the time even before the invasion. They were contained.

Why did we need to invade? There really is no logical reason beyond greed, oil, and the desire for a strategic place of operation, since we let SA kick us out.

Nope Oil for food is just an example of what happens when you entrust the "international community."

So a couple of scandals is enough to never trust anyone? Then why do you trust W and company. They've had about .... what 50 scandals or so? Maybe more?

Well, this guy lists 372 W and company scandals:

http://www.netrootsmass.net/Hugh/Bush_list.html

Historically all good reasons for going to War.

There are no good reasons to go to war, except direct self defense. None. Ever. (IMHO)

Our economy is not destroyed. Technically it is not even in recession. The Housing market (which has nothing to do with the war) is in "Crisis" because people bought houses who couldn't afford them.

Oil prices are high, but if we had stared drilling and building oil refineraries when it was proposed during the Clinton presidency that would be under control.

Corn prices are high because of ethenol. which affects grain and meat prices. Again nothing to do with the war.

Frankly if you do not have a familymember in the military you can go about your daily routine and not even realize we are at war.

Not with thre crippling costs of food and energy now. We went from a surplus to debt. People are being crushed by job loss, high costs, and expensive credit. I feel the pain every day, and I have a pretty good job.

Must be nice to be independently wealthy, like you, dude.

Why? Historically War with Iraq is justifiable. We probably have sufficent cause to go to War with Mexico. It doesn't take much to trigger a War generally speaking.

your memo story has all sorts of cavaets in it slug line "ex-CIA official says Cheney likely ordered letter linking Hussein to 9/11 attacks.

I read the transcript.

Ron: Now this is from the Vice President's Office is how you remembered it--not from the president?

Rob: No, no, no. What I remember is George saying, 'we got this from'--basically, from what George said was 'downtown.'

Ron: Which is the White House?

Rob: Yes. But he did not--in my memory--never said president, vice president, or NSC. Okay? But now--he may have hinted--just by the way he said it, it would have--cause almost all that stuff came from one place only: Scooter Libby and the shop around the vice president.

Taking the transcript at it's word, (audio or video would be better) he says it did not come from the Vice President, everything else is speculation, to sell a book I might add.

The transcript "comes on the heels of denials by both the White House and Richer of a claim Suskind made in his new book, The Way of The World. "

Again, I think most people on earth except warmongers would agree war is not justifiable except as direct self defense. Do you beat people up in bars because they look at you funny, dude? Are you that type? Do you decide that your neighbor is hiding a shotgun so you break into his house and kill his pets and maybe his brother? I really don't understand your violent attitude?

Otherwise, why not sign up and go fight in Iraq, dude?!?

Oh, and there a lot of other forgeries and lies leading up to the war. Nit pic that one, but what of the yellow "birthday" cake forgery? What of the Downing Street Memo?

Head in the sand much?

You know, I don't mean to be that nasty to you. I really like you and your very smart posts. I just don't get the pro-war thing. I have very conservative relatives who now hate W and agree with me on the war. They will probably vote for Obama, but they will vote Republican the rest of the time. They used to argue with me about W. Now they just are just resigned that W was a waste. They are very down about the war and the economy. I guess I should respect you for your persistence. But I don't understand it.

Ah the politics of personal destruction. Do I ever personally attack you? I have a different view point so I must be a closetted serial killer.

No, I am just trying to understand why people support death and destruction. I really don't get it. Sure, it's fine in defense. Someone threatens me or my family and I'm there! But a pre-emptive war? How about I decide the guy on the next block might some day steal my bike? Should I fake evidence and then kill him?

I find War distasteful but a nessisary evil. Would I like AQ to take all there troops out to the middle of the desert face coilliton forces head on in a "You got a problem with us bring it bitch battle." sure but that ain't gonna happen.

Diplomacy and cooperation only work when it is mutually adventageous to both parties. Iraq had years to comply with UN sanctions, The Taliban would be in power if they handed over Osama Bin Ladden.

There are other countries who are violating more UN sanctions than Iraq and they are our best friends. Your argument holds no water.

And war is an unnecessary waste of time, lives and money. It's a racket.

Facts are facts, Opinion does not negate fact.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.