[Rachel Bronwyn]

Finding out someone had male genitals at one point doesn't reflect on who they are as a human being whatsoever nor does it change how physically attractive they are. It's a significant event in their life, not in who they are as an individual and is entirely physical. Their mind has never changed. The physical process they underwent, if anything, provided them with a healthier psyche.

If you find a woman attractive until you learn that she is transgendered, and then you're no longer attracted to her, that means you're a homophobe. Know why? Because it means you think either a: she is really a gay man in disguise or b: because it means you're really attracted to a man and therefore you're gay, and you think either of these things is bad or wrong. And no matter which one you pick you're also a prick, because you think 'she's not really a woman, she's just pretending to be one.'

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!!!

Unless there is a reason aside from the sex that a Y chromosome denotes or their having had male genitals at one time (and maybe there's a reason that flew over my head), no longer finding someone attractive after finding out they're a biological male is entirely based in homophobia. This is, by no means, a matter of opinion. It's factual and logical. Homophobia has a strict definition which is accurately adhered to in this scenario.

And, to a certain degree, it's fine to be a homophobe. We all need to be honest about our irrational prejudices. We need to make a life-long effort to confront and challenge our discriminatory beliefs and not just accept "Yeah, I'm a little bit homophobic" though.

Originally Posted by CandyKing

As for The Warlock? Finding out that she was a man would spoil my enjoyment, because I just don't swing for the TG thing, the same way I can appreciate a view until I know all of the details, and then find out nothing about it attracts me. I won't ogle her or go out with her, will I hate her or get pissed or discriminate against her? No. Seperate issues, saying people are homophobes for NOT being attracted to someone who is pretty but is a known TG is just a ridiculous opinion.

It's spot on, actually.

Again, you're equating homophobia with violent, hateful behaviour, which simply isn't the case in the scenario of losing attraction to someone after finding out they are biologically male and once had male genitals. Unless there is reasoning for not finding someone attractive based on their being transgendered that isn't founded in private, personal homophobia, that's exactly what it is- private, personal homophobia.

If there is a reason aside from the ones the Warlock mentioned that finding out someone transgendered can completely spoil enjoyment of them and it isn't founded in not wanting to be with someone with the same chromosomes as you, I'm genuinely dying to hear it. "I'm not into TG" isn't a reason. There's motivation behind the sentiment that is either homophobic or isn't.

Originally Posted by Jungles

I'm just too offended by what this Rachel person has to say to even dignify it with a direct response.

This is called trolling.

"I can't formulate a coherent response so I'm just going to bluster and attempt to demonise the person who has challenged me with logic with lies."

I'm all for giving people equal opportunities in life. I don't let someone's sexual preferences affect my everyday treatment of them in business or pleasure, as long as they aren't harming the weak or innocent with their actions.

I'd hope your concern would extend to anyone who doesn't consent. If a weak or innocent person wants to be harmed during sex that's really none of your business either.

But who I like to fuck is entirely my decision, who I don't like to fuck is also entirely my decision, and I don't owe anyone in the entire world an apology over that preference.

When you use discriminatory assumptions to justify your turn offs, you owe an enormous apology to all those you wrongfully assumed negative things about, not because you didn't have sex with them, but because you made horrible, inaccurate assumptions about them. You may never find them attractive, just like I'm not into fuck dolls, and that's OK.

If someone I don't like to fuck tries to trick me into fucking them then I have every right to be upset with them. That is every individual's fundamental right, and it sickens me that someone like Rachel has the nerve to impose their sexual preferences on me or anyone else.

And now you're relying on presenting an argument that was never made to demonise me. Wow. That's embarrassing.

I'll quote myself:

Challenging someone to examine their highly irrational, extreme response to something benign is not the same as forcing someone to not be offended by something or find it attractive. Saying "Your treatment of gay people and response to situations you perceive as gay is irrational" is not the same as saying "You need to learn to find this sexy/not interpret this as gross." When someone's displeasure with a particular stimuli is due to senseless bigotry, challenging them to get the hell over it has to do with that senseless bias, not objective stimuli experienced as attractive or offensive. There's no intention to make the stimuli attractive to them nor is there any intention to make it less repulsive, only to expose the profound irrationality of the basis of their offense. Even once examined, the stimuli my remain unappealing. The faulty logic upon which it stands, which is harmful to others, will dissipate though.

I..... don't see a single example of imposing one's preferences on another. Unless challenging others to not be bigots is a preference. Regarding imposing sexual preferences though, I've been pretty clear this isn't the intention nor is it the most likely outcome. Good effort though.

I certainly wouldn't think of telling Rachel who she should like to fuck, and I'm not offended if it doesn't match my own preferences. It's entirely up to her.

If I had a profoundly discriminatory bias founded in bigotry, I sure as shit would hope you and anyone else would confront me about the irrationality of it and the damage that bias caused. If I screamed about the unattractiveness of black people, a notion based on racist assumptions, I hope others would challenge me. Would I ever find black people attractive? I have no idea, as this isn't and has never been my stance. Would my obsene revulsion based on irrational bias dissipate? If I took what those who had confronted me had to say seriously, probably.

And I'm sure she practices what she preaches and routinely fucks every homeless, sickly, toothless person who wants sex with her because she certainly wouldn't let her own revulsion get in the way of anyone else's desires.

Awww, look at the little troll trying to shove words down my oesopagus. Evidence-free, of course, in genuine troll-style. You can feed it fishsticks for an extra $2.25!

Strangely enough, my guy is missing one of his front teeth. I never want to see him without the fake one. Except maybe on Halloween. We could be rednecks.

You'll need to fabricate something to provide evidence I suggested people fuck everything they're grossed out by though. All I've said is people need to be challenged regarding irrational turn offs, which won't necessarily result in those turn offs becoming turn ons.

Furthermore, your example fails because there are very valid reasons too find sick people, hobos, and toothless folk unappealing.

But that's her preference, and she no right to impose this on anyone else.

Good thing she's never so much as suggested imposing her preferences on others. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt a assume you have poor reading comprehension skills as opposed to thinking you're intentionally trying to put words in my mouth to demonise me.

She does have every right in the world to confront people whose discriminatory sexual biases are rooted in irrational hatred about that irrationality. It likely won't change what they are attracted to. The hateful basis upon which they root their extreme turn-off would be destroyed if the person were willing to examine it closely and weigh the validity of their beliefs though, which would be beneficial to them in that they would no longer experience extreme negative emotion at the sight of such things and would do the people they actively discriminate against due to these irrational beliefs a world of good as well. Everybody wins!

She also has the right to deem others shallow and homophobic when the shoe fits.

I've never dated or been with a trans person, so the notion I'm trying to impose my kink for trangendered people on others falls flat. I don't find anything about being transgendered particularly sexy. I don't find it offensive either. It makes me sad that anyone would have to go through such an ordeal to be comfortable in their body.

I've been with one intersexed person who was positively fascinating though. Used male pronouns but personally identified as male and female regarding different attributes of his personality. I'm super glad I was able to get over the initial what-the-fuck-is-that reaction to his genitals as well, which weren't male or female, but were no less enjoyable and functional than any conventional set I've encountered. It was a profound experience.