No Age-Related Comics

[Silver Spoon]

Probably, though the links are still on the Process Productions Store.

[gribs]

Originally Posted by Dark Oni

But drawings aren't illegal on the internet. Certain photographs can be illegal because that's considered child abuse; they involve actual children being harmed. Drawings with child images, even if they were sexually nasty and explicit (Check out a good chunk of the Japanese AR/AP material. How often does AR link with loli anyway? Yeesh.) are still legal.

This isn't about legality, this is about a business getting paranoid and laying out very broad limits to protect it's image. Nothing wrong with that, just sad that it covers a great deal of unrelated more innocent work as well.

This may or may not be true. It's becoming less clear. In a discussion about a recent court case:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/29/0140251

we have the following text (which might or might not actually be legal fact; I haven't tried myself to read and interpret the legal findings, and even if I had, I'm not a lawyer):

Originally Posted by some guy on another forum

That's not true - two of the three charges were child pornography charges, including one of the two in respect of the drawn images. Under current US law, drawn images are treated exactly the same as real child pornography (but only if they're either obscene or "depict an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" - anything which isn't has 1st amendment protection). Note that there is no requirement of obscenity under the second criterion; I doubt this is generally in issue, but it's possible there are circumstances under which it could be.

It's a bogeyman which is IMO being applied way too broadly. I'm very against thought police, even in regards to things I find personally distasteful. But the actual legal realities are becoming increasingly murky.

It might actually be the case that any image featuring a real or drawn child, regardless of what's otherwise being depicted in the image, can be the basis for a child porn conviction if the prosecutor can only convince the jury that you've got it for some 'dirty reason'. If that's not currently the case, it sure feels like that's the way things are going.

[TF-Viewer]

Is that store the only possible one that could be used to sell Process Productions material? What I mean is, if this store is so uptight about what you can sell, maybe you should find a new one.

[Shrinkmaster22]

While I do agree with all of you that the new rule is a little extreme, I can understand the store manager's position, where do we draw the line when it comes to AR/AP? While I have a strong position against child pornography and pedophilia, my interest in AR involves no graphic sexual fantasies and is only about the physical change and sometimes only the immediate events that follow.

I think the problem here may be that because while Palcomix is the best place to commission any process comic, their works always include sexual content. There have been times where I was going to commission palcomix for some of my previous AR and SW works (all of which were still great despite the lack of sexual content), but I ultimately chose not to because I felt it would not be a project worthy of their time specifically because of the lack of sex.

So I think if Palcomix or another artist would be willing to do Process comics (AR or otherwise) without sexual content, acceptions can be made to the new rule and everybody can be happy.

[Dark Oni]

Originally Posted by gribs

This may or may not be true. It's becoming less clear. In a discussion about a recent court case:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/29/0140251

we have the following text (which might or might not actually be legal fact; I haven't tried myself to read and interpret the legal findings, and even if I had, I'm not a lawyer):



It's a bogeyman which is IMO being applied way too broadly. I'm very against thought police, even in regards to things I find personally distasteful. But the actual legal realities are becoming increasingly murky.

It might actually be the case that any image featuring a real or drawn child, regardless of what's otherwise being depicted in the image, can be the basis for a child porn conviction if the prosecutor can only convince the jury that you've got it for some 'dirty reason'. If that's not currently the case, it sure feels like that's the way things are going.

Obscenity is an exception to the First Amendment and one can be arrested for having obscene material even if it is drawn, HOWEVER, proving a drawing on the internet is obscene by the definition the Supreme Court has laid out is next to impossible.

For more detail on this: http://www.ararchive.com/index.php?o...&limitstart=60

Now I'm not sure about any decisions in the last year but I do know about a year ago the Court ruled that a photograph of an adult modified with a computer program to look like a child having sex was not a violation of the First Amendment. Given that decision and how conservative the current court is I doubt that anything that has shown up in AR/AP comics would be considered obscene either.

Furthermore, nothing Lorekeep has posted for sale has fallen into the catagory of what was in that case, which is in appeals. Still, a very chilling ruling for those of us not fond of thoughtcrimes being prosecuted.

[LK]

Sorry guys, it's just an area I can't go into. Life, Interrupted isn't even available for sale anymore. The only option left is to sell the copyright, but if the comic is obscene and violates law, I'm just going to get in trouble regardless of what I do with it.

[jimroberts]

I find this interesting in that if there is anything that bothers me about Lauren & Betsy II - which I have, is the sex scene in it. Not that I'm against sex, but I'm interested in the process and results of AR/AP... and sure sex might be a result, but it's not the part of the process that I'm really interested in.

Obviously, the store owner has the right to decide what he wants to sell/not sell, but I find it a little odd to say you can't sell something somewhere else.

Of course, I haven't seen Life Interrupted, so can't comment on if it really does cross some lines.

[Dark Oni]

Originally Posted by Lorekeep

Sorry guys, it's just an area I can't go into. Life, Interrupted isn't even available for sale anymore. The only option left is to sell the copyright, but if the comic is obscene and violates law, I'm just going to get in trouble regardless of what I do with it.

Life Interrupted does not 'lack serious literary or artistic value', and I would be utterly shocked if it were considered obscene. That said I completely respect your decision.

Especially given *bleep* like this: http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000372.shtml

Sometimes the Supreme Court can only do so much and I have no problem with someone protecting themselves against those in the government who have no respect for artistic rights.

BTW: Gribs, great link. I loved the comment about going after the Sistine Chapel next. "Some of those naked Cherubs look awfully young." Sigh.

[CyberFox]

If your AR material is illegal by your store's manager
Why not let people see them for free?

[Captain Ash]

As long as you have a paypal account, you can still sell you stuff, Lorekeep.
It is too bad that you can't offer these comics in your store anymore.

Captain Ash

[Blackheart]

It is unfortunate that lorekeep's manager has decided to lay down the law as his authority allows him to, but this is a fine line and some folks would rather not even allow their business name to be at all related to a gray area of any sort. I do wish your business luck in its other endeavors though, perhaps strict literature would serve you better.

Oh and lorekeep probably can't show all of the stuff he had up for free, because I'm guessing he has financial responsibilites to other parties involved in its creation.

[LK]

On the plus side, if you like shrinking, growth, or transformation... you're in heaven!