Cautionary message about Amazon Eve

[fox_drifter]

Jesus Christ. I stopped reading this thread on page 5, but in the spirit of it, I'll go ahead and post some personal opinions regardless of how on topic they are.

Live and let live. Not everyone likes TG people. Not everyone likes blondes. Not everyone likes people that read, I don't know, science fiction. Some of this sucks. You might be a blonde. You might be a blonde that *really likes* that guy that doesn't like blondes.

Well, you can go and try and convince him to look past your being blonde or you can find someone else.

I get *exceptionally* tired of hearing the word 'homophobia' bandied about. By some peoples' definition in here, you'd think I were homophobic simply for not wanting to have sex with a man! Put some limits on these things, people! If a guy is turned off by finding out his girlfriend's man-hands come from, in fact, having once been a man, it does not actually make him homophobic! There is a very grounded (and large, notably) group of people that believe one's gender is what comes from the DNA you get at birth, and nothing else (genetic aberrations aside, which I feel everyone can agree are special and rare cases). Assuming they are not lunging at the TG community with knives, let them be heterosexual! And that includes not telling them they're afraid of being *homosexual* simply because they don't want to have sex with what is, to their mind, their own gender!

I find it hugely ironic that many of the TG folks I know find the entire basis of their transition in the flexibility of their gender identity versus their sex, changing their physical form to what they feel is correct psychologically; because they believe (keyword there, 'believe'--isn't what one believes all that matters in this?) gender is not determined by sex alone, they transform themselves! And yet to many here, the idea that someone believes differently, that gender *is* defined by sex, is so abhorrent that they can only fall to violently insulting those with opposing views--people on this forum, who are, in fact, *not* lunging at said TG'd community with knives.

Some of us crazy internet loonies like people transforming into giant werewolves. Some of us like women with dicks and four-foot tongues and every other kind of weirdness. This TG business actually transfers into reality and I understand that. But like the others, it *is* a matter of preference when it comes to lust and love. So please. Live and let live.

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by fox_drifter

I get *exceptionally* tired of hearing the word 'homophobia' bandied about. By some peoples' definition in here, you'd think I were homophobic simply for not wanting to have sex with a man! Put some limits on these things, people! If a guy is turned off by finding out his girlfriend's man-hands come from, in fact, having once been a man, it does not actually make him homophobic! There is a very grounded (and large, notably) group of people that believe one's gender is what comes from the DNA you get at birth, and nothing else (genetic aberrations aside, which I feel everyone can agree are special and rare cases). Assuming they are not lunging at the TG community with knives, let them be heterosexual! And that includes not telling them they're afraid of being *homosexual* simply because they don't want to have sex with what is, to their mind, their own gender!

Well said, and entirely logical. And...

Originally Posted by fox_drifter

So please. Live and let live.

If only.

[Sephie]

Originally Posted by fox_drifter

Jesus Christ. I stopped reading this thread on page 5, but in the spirit of it, I'll go ahead and post some personal opinions regardless of how on topic they are.

Live and let live. Not everyone likes TG people. Not everyone likes blondes. Not everyone likes people that read, I don't know, science fiction. Some of this sucks. You might be a blonde. You might be a blonde that *really likes* that guy that doesn't like blondes.

Well, you can go and try and convince him to look past your being blonde or you can find someone else.

I get *exceptionally* tired of hearing the word 'homophobia' bandied about. By some peoples' definition in here, you'd think I were homophobic simply for not wanting to have sex with a man! Put some limits on these things, people! If a guy is turned off by finding out his girlfriend's man-hands come from, in fact, having once been a man, it does not actually make him homophobic! There is a very grounded (and large, notably) group of people that believe one's gender is what comes from the DNA you get at birth, and nothing else (genetic aberrations aside, which I feel everyone can agree are special and rare cases). Assuming they are not lunging at the TG community with knives, let them be heterosexual! And that includes not telling them they're afraid of being *homosexual* simply because they don't want to have sex with what is, to their mind, their own gender!

I find it hugely ironic that many of the TG folks I know find the entire basis of their transition in the flexibility of their gender identity versus their sex, changing their physical form to what they feel is correct psychologically; because they believe (keyword there, 'believe'--isn't what one believes all that matters in this?) gender is not determined by sex alone, they transform themselves! And yet to many here, the idea that someone believes differently, that gender *is* defined by sex, is so abhorrent that they can only fall to violently insulting those with opposing views--people on this forum, who are, in fact, *not* lunging at said TG'd community with knives.

Some of us crazy internet loonies like people transforming into giant werewolves. Some of us like women with dicks and four-foot tongues and every other kind of weirdness. This TG business actually transfers into reality and I understand that. But like the others, it *is* a matter of preference when it comes to lust and love. So please. Live and let live.

Wow. A strawman.

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by Herr Onymous-Bosch

Wow. A strawman.

I'm sorry but I fail to see any straw. I see that as a well thought out assessment. He was very respectful in his observation of the situation and presented a very logical assessment; that being because you don't like it, doesn't mean that you are discriminatory against that person but dislike the certain quality or concept they bring or represent. Personally I applaud fox_drifter on that post.

[Sephie]

Originally Posted by tjlemke

I'm sorry but I fail to see any straw. I see that as a well thought out assessment. He was very respectful in his observation of the situation and presented a very logical assessment; that being because you don't like it, doesn't mean that you are discriminatory against that person but dislike the certain quality or concept they bring or represent. Personally I applaud fox_drifter on that post.

It is a strawman as it attacks a position other than the one held by the opposition. He was very thorough in the descimation of the argument that he constructed to represent his opposition. In other words the arguments that he claims were proposed by me and others were not and he was just putting words in peoples mouths. It is an incredibly dishonest tactic if done deliberately, and implies ignorance of the opposition if not.

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by Herr Onymous-Bosch

It is a strawman as it attacks a position other than the one held by the opposition. He was very thorough in the descimation of the argument that he constructed to represent his opposition. In other words the arguments that he claims were proposed by me and others were not and he was just putting words in peoples mouths. It is an incredibly dishonest tactic if done deliberately, and implies ignorance of the opposition if not.

Think what you want, I find that message he made up there to be very spot on

[Magniphile]

Um... why is this thread still in the "Growth" section?

[Anurubius]

Originally Posted by Magniphile

Um... why is this thread still in the "Growth" section?

because it entertains me. *munches popcorn*

[fox_drifter]

Originally Posted by Anurubius

because it entertains me. *munches popcorn*

Entertainment fuels the interwebs!

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Magniphile

Um... why is this thread still in the "Growth" section?

Because it's growing by the second....

[qzar9999]

Something I thought of today but couldn't add until now. Since I'm being called delusional and ignorant of logic, I thought I'd try a logical approach to this. Stop me if I say something incorrect...

1) Nobody here is claiming telepathy, so I think we all agree none of us can read someone else's mind. Therefore, it's impossible to really know what someone else is truly thinking.
2) We can guess at/assume what others are thinking by observing their words and actions, but that's all it is: a guess or assumption.
3) Therefore, when we observe the words or actions of another--keep up with me, here--we formulate an opinion about what we believe they're thinking. Since we can't know for sure, our hypothesis cannot be proven, so it is not and will never be a fact.

Now let's examine the argument put forth by Rachel, Warlock, etc.

"If you dislike TG people or find them unattractive, you are exhibiting homophobia."

What you're doing there is observing words or actions (the dislike of a TG person) and ascribing a motive to them, i.e. you're stating the other person's reasoning, which is what you think they're thinking. As demonstrated above, this is your opinion, and not a fact. Which was the only problem I had in the first place.

That said, you're probably right about some people; I'm sure there ARE people who dislike TG's out of homophobia. But you can't possibly presume that that applies to every single person who has some issue with TG's. Wait, sorry, you can presume it; you just can't justify it as a fact.

Oh yeah, one more thing: as far as fap/fetish material is concerned, I agree completely with HOB. If it looks, walks, talks, acts like, and claims to be a woman, it's a woman. It doesn't matter to me. But I do stand by my original contention that it DOES matter to some people (else this thread wouldn't exist) and that businesses are obligated to be honest with their customers.

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by qzar9999

Something I thought of today but couldn't add until now. Since I'm being called delusional and ignorant of logic, I thought I'd try a logical approach to this. Stop me if I say something incorrect...

1) Nobody here is claiming telepathy, so I think we all agree none of us can read someone else's mind. Therefore, it's impossible to really know what someone else is truly thinking.
2) We can guess at/assume what others are thinking by observing their words and actions, but that's all it is: a guess or assumption.
3) Therefore, when we observe the words or actions of another--keep up with me, here--we formulate an opinion about what we believe they're thinking. Since we can't know for sure, our hypothesis cannot be proven, so it is not and will never be a fact.

Now let's examine the argument put forth by Rachel, Warlock, etc.

"If you dislike TG people or find them unattractive, you are exhibiting homophobia."

What you're doing there is observing words or actions (the dislike of a TG person) and ascribing a motive to them, i.e. you're stating the other person's reasoning, which is what you think they're thinking. As demonstrated above, this is your opinion, and not a fact. Which was the only problem I had in the first place.

That said, you're probably right about some people; I'm sure there ARE people who dislike TG's out of homophobia. But you can't possibly presume that that applies to every single person who has some issue with TG's. Wait, sorry, you can presume it; you just can't justify it as a fact.

Oh yeah, one more thing: as far as fap/fetish material is concerned, I agree completely with HOB. If it looks, walks, talks, acts like, and claims to be a woman, it's a woman. It doesn't matter to me. But I do stand by my original contention that it DOES matter to some people (else this thread wouldn't exist) and that businesses are obligated to be honest with their customers.

That was alright but didn't really seem to prove much beyond what we already knew (or at least I HOPE everybody else was on the same page). IDK, kinda seemed like a reverberation of what we had beforehand. Then again, it wasn't wrong so THUMBS UP!!!