Cautionary message about Amazon Eve

[LOD]

(Source used wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_phobias )

The English suffixes -phobia, -phobic, -phobe (of Greek origin: φόβος/φοβία ) occur in technical usage in psychiatry to construct words that describe irrational, disabling fear as a mental disorder (e.g., agoraphobia), in chemistry to describe chemical aversions (e.g., hydrophobic), in biology to describe organisms that dislike certain conditions (e.g., acidophobia), and in medicine to describe hypersensitivity to a stimulus, usually sensory (e.g., photophobia). In common usage they also form words that describe dislike or hatred of a particular thing or subject.

[CandyKing]

I don't hate fat people, but I won't get into a personal relationship with them because no, it's not in my personal preferences. And I will not say my personal preferences are wrong, what I am argueing against is You (Rachel) and Warlock being incredibly derogatory to anyone with a different opinion. And this isn't an essay, I'm not citing my sources, look up wikipedia or dictionary.com and you'll come close enough. Non attraction is not aversion, irrational fear, or even discrimination. Like I said, you can laud the merits of someone being attractive without WANTING a physical relationship, there is nothing wrong with this.

I find it amusing you point out you irrationally stereotype fat people, I do no such thing, nor do I stereotype TGs or anything else. I just don't feel like having a personal intimate relationship with one, much like several other factors which may not preclude friendship, some physical attraction, does stop me from wanting an intimate relationship. But this is falling into opinion again, and argueing against it is pointless, I don't see it as bad, because I do not harp on them or insult them, and am perfectly fine with how they want to live.

Irrational lack of attraction is just an odd term, especially on these forums, and I don't think that can really be bandied about, I'm not attracted to FMG, or dragoons artwork, I'm sure others would say "WHY NOT? ITS SEXY", but thats all opinion junk. If someone is accepting of homosexuals or TGs or anything else, but does not want to have a physical relationship, this kind of argument may actually push someone to DISLIKE them all together, simply because someone is being offensive about what they may or may not like. I also find it interesting you keep mentioning homophobe, because amusingly, if you go all the way with what some people preach, they were never male in the FIRST place, they were female, and merely adjusted themselves biologically, so they are women liking men. Gay men might not actually always like a TG'd person because they look female, nor does it require being gay to appreciate someone who is a TG. An interesting secondary discussion!

So are gay men also discrimatory? Are straight men being gay? TG crosses all kinds of lines, and makes it hard to define, so no, I still refuse your constant assertions that it is homophobia. I also find your extreme terms "overwhelming lack of attraction", or "strong attraction prior" is a very, very specific circumstance, and that WOULD probably imply homophobia of some sort if they act out on it.

Also don't tell me to cite sources after you don't either, amusingly warlock cited the same source that I used to write my post, your own attempt to force your opinions on others has done nothing but incite anger at your own strawman preaching. And you both have fallen into the trap of hurling out personal insults on a whim, which I responded to in kind, which turned Warlock's last post into a straight troll by calling us all 13 year olds who aren't mature.

Editted to add: According to liveordie's definition of phobia, if you fit into that criteria, it certainly doesn't seem to be possible to be accepting or generally have friends with that community if you have a phobia of them. As a side note, Ranma-chan fanfiction is my favorite kind, been reading it for years and years, noticed the links in liveordie's stuff, not enough good Ranma-chan work out there. Not really related to anything, but yer!

[LOD]

The definition of Phobia isn't the only word that is being disputed....

One of the main areas of discussion in this thread is the definition of a transsexual. The OP comes out with the assumption that TGs are gay men that are trying to deceive other men into thinking they are women for personal gain. The problem with that is fundamental! They assume the person going through the transition is attracted to men in the first place. They also assume their only goal is to profit.

From what I've seen that can't be further from the truth. I'm not saying there aren't cases of gay men doing this but if someone brandishes all transsexuals as liars because of a few individuals that is where they make the mistake.

[Sephie]

Please stop using Homophobia to mean transphobia/transmysogny. I have known people who are homosexual that are bigotted against transgendered. There are different prejudices associated with each form of bigotry. The individuals on this thread being accused of homophobia are not necessarily homophobic. They are however necessarily transphobic/transmisogynistic.

[The Warlock]

Highly recommended.

The Warlock

[Sephie]

The accusations made by certain individuals who claim not to be bigoted towards transgendered individuals show both a fundamental misunderstanding of and a distrust of transgendered individuals. This is the definition of transphobia.

[tjlemke]

Im homophobic to the point that I don't want to date somebody of the same sex. I have homosexual friends and I'm okay with them, just I guess im homophobic to the standpoint that being involved with any sexual desires or any idea beyond friendship (I say hi and they stay out of my pants or anything else thought sexual) with the same sex creeps me out. I am proud of who I am, and thusly and not shamed of my feelings. None of us should because we are entitled to them. That's my take.

EDIT: OK, I have made it through about half of this entire thread making it out with my eyes intact (barely). Honestly it shouldn't matter to either side what is or isn't to whoever else's opinion. I don't wanna have sex with men nor former men. Do I feel gay or violated afterward? Yes. Does it matter to you? No. If I have sex and they don't tell me they were or were not a man, it's a issue between me and her. Now would I prefer to have that info before having sex? Yes. Am I asking alot of questions to myself? Yes. Do I sound like Kate Gosselin during that interview? Unfortunately yes.

All we gotta figure out is to them their own. I am homophobic somewhat. I will not keep you, somebody homosexual or transgendered, from being my friend or let alone, breathing. I will not stop any other homosexual/TG person from accomplishing anything they want or can so long as it doesn't intrude on my rights to not having sex with them or other (can't think >.<). We just gotta live and let live. If I don't like your life choices, I shouldn't matter to you at all. So long as a non-homosexual person or a homophobe doesn't prevent a homosexual/TG person from there rights as a human being, then I see no harm on the matter. (This is saying that they are treating you with respect and am not harassing you for your life choices)

[CandyKing]

I like how I got ignored for calling him out on his excessive rants, amusing, you go boy, you hit that ignore key like a champion! I mean not like you treated anyone ELSE this way and people still felt like responding to you semi reasonably! Not at all~

If people want to insist on transphobia or homophobia, then I pretty much agree with tjlemke. I have already responded to Herr on the whole throwing out of phobias and acceptance/attraction vs engaging in intimacy in earlier posts, as well as the use of bigot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia

Not the greatest source, but covers it fairly well and makes the distinction between homophobia and transphobia, so I'll give him credit for mentioning that. I don't think anyone else has yet in this thread, although I may have missed it in one of Rachels posts if she mentioned it.

[Sephie]

Thank you for strawmanning my argument. I am not calling individuals who started this thread transphobic based off of whether they want to engage in intimacy or are attracted to trans individuals. My basis was that they are accusing trans individuals of being deceitful when they engage in honest behavior, seems incapable of understanding that TG does not necessarily = MTF, nor that TG does not necessarily correlate with orientation, furthermore believes that trans individuals need to risk their life and livelihood to assuage his insecurities. Furthermore the belief that you are accurately able to spot if some one is trans or not 100% of the time has been statistically debunked long past with not only frequent false negatives but frequent false positives.

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by The Warlock

I guess I'll just have to accept that you guys are almost as mature and intelligent as 13 year olds. I'm through trying to teach you, you're obviously too afraid to see what's in front of you.

The Warlock

A lecture on maturity from the guy who called me "idiot" and "moron." Cute.

Originally Posted by Rachel Bronwyn

Funny that delusional folk like qzar attempt to malign me as the uneducated, misled individual yet they're the one making up definitions as they go.

Really? I called you uneducated and misled? I don't see that anywhere. Much like I don't see any post where I've said anything negative about gay or transgendered people, or one where I've made up my own definition of something, or even a place where I've said I wasn't attracted to Eve or someone else because they're TG. Perhaps I'm posting in invisible ink, or I'm on my own ignore list, because I must have said these things or you and Warlock wouldn't be accusing me of the things you are.

I guess what I'm trying to say to you two is:

Originally Posted by Rachel Bronwyn

Show your sources, dude. You're talking out your ass.

I might also point out that I haven't resorted to name-calling, yet it's being suggested that I'm the one who's immature.

It's threads like this that are the reason I try to stay out of F&BS these days. I thought the forums devoted to the actual fetish material would be a neutral area of sorts, but apparently...

[The Warlock]

Originally Posted by CandyKing

I like how I got ignored for calling him out on his excessive rants, amusing, you go boy, you hit that ignore key like a champion! I mean not like you treated anyone ELSE this way and people still felt like responding to you semi reasonably! Not at all~

Originally Posted by qzar9999

A lecture on maturity from the guy who called me "idiot" and "moron." Cute.

Ah, I will break the ignoring this once to clarify: your views and beliefs are as mature as a child's, I don't care how you phrase them. You're so colossally ignorant, and happy being so, that I don't want to read the bullshit you spew forth any more.

That's all.

The Warlock

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by The Warlock

Ah, I will break the ignoring this once to clarify: your views and beliefs are as mature as a child's, I don't care how you phrase them.

You're STILL ignoring the fact that I have not posted any views or beliefs about TG'd people in this thread, yet am still being treated as if I have. How convenient. And...

Originally Posted by The Warlock

You're so colossally ignorant, and happy being so, that I don't want to read the bullshit you spew forth any more.

Pot, kettle, black.