Cautionary message about Amazon Eve

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by Rachel Bronwyn

Qzar is still taking the logic-free route of claiming "I never said that, so you're a big liar-liar-pants-on-fire" which, frankly, is just inflated semantics. If you honestly think not saying exact words equates to having not said or suggested as much, you're delusional. But that's old news. If someone honestly believes "I didn't name-call or use swear words, therefore, I wasn't insulting and I win", frankly, I applaud them. That level of irrational thinking might do my mental health some good (and make me a total dick.) Sadly, I'm a prisoner of logic and reason.

Who's talking exact words? I never said anything even remotely like it. Honestly. What's the matter with you? Your argument goes something like this: "Dude" finds a woman attractive, then finds out she's a TG and used to be a he, and no longer finds her attractive, and that is therefore homophobia. The fact that I disagree with you there aside, you're accusing me of it when I have not said that I'm unattracted to Eve or any other TG person. At all, in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I therefore do not meet the criteria for your assertion. If either of us is delusional, well, it ain't me.

TL: DR version: It's not arguing semantics, because I haven't even said anything that suggests I find a TG female unattractive. So, in your own words, yes, you are a "big liar-liar-pants-on-fire." If I'm wrong, then I ask for the Nth time that you show me where I even implied it.

By the way, thanks for continuing to support my statements about maturity (e.g. the insults) which have nothing to do with whether or not I "win" this thread. I was just pointing out that it's possible to disagree with someone and still have some civility, but you and Warlock don't seem capable of that.

On an entirely unrelated note: LOD, that actually is a pretty hot photo of Eve, there. I didn't like the Zoo one, to me it's not flattering to her face. Of course lacy black lingerie helps.

[fox_drifter]

Jesus Christ. I stopped reading this thread on page 5, but in the spirit of it, I'll go ahead and post some personal opinions regardless of how on topic they are.

Live and let live. Not everyone likes TG people. Not everyone likes blondes. Not everyone likes people that read, I don't know, science fiction. Some of this sucks. You might be a blonde. You might be a blonde that *really likes* that guy that doesn't like blondes.

Well, you can go and try and convince him to look past your being blonde or you can find someone else.

I get *exceptionally* tired of hearing the word 'homophobia' bandied about. By some peoples' definition in here, you'd think I were homophobic simply for not wanting to have sex with a man! Put some limits on these things, people! If a guy is turned off by finding out his girlfriend's man-hands come from, in fact, having once been a man, it does not actually make him homophobic! There is a very grounded (and large, notably) group of people that believe one's gender is what comes from the DNA you get at birth, and nothing else (genetic aberrations aside, which I feel everyone can agree are special and rare cases). Assuming they are not lunging at the TG community with knives, let them be heterosexual! And that includes not telling them they're afraid of being *homosexual* simply because they don't want to have sex with what is, to their mind, their own gender!

I find it hugely ironic that many of the TG folks I know find the entire basis of their transition in the flexibility of their gender identity versus their sex, changing their physical form to what they feel is correct psychologically; because they believe (keyword there, 'believe'--isn't what one believes all that matters in this?) gender is not determined by sex alone, they transform themselves! And yet to many here, the idea that someone believes differently, that gender *is* defined by sex, is so abhorrent that they can only fall to violently insulting those with opposing views--people on this forum, who are, in fact, *not* lunging at said TG'd community with knives.

Some of us crazy internet loonies like people transforming into giant werewolves. Some of us like women with dicks and four-foot tongues and every other kind of weirdness. This TG business actually transfers into reality and I understand that. But like the others, it *is* a matter of preference when it comes to lust and love. So please. Live and let live.

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by fox_drifter

I get *exceptionally* tired of hearing the word 'homophobia' bandied about. By some peoples' definition in here, you'd think I were homophobic simply for not wanting to have sex with a man! Put some limits on these things, people! If a guy is turned off by finding out his girlfriend's man-hands come from, in fact, having once been a man, it does not actually make him homophobic! There is a very grounded (and large, notably) group of people that believe one's gender is what comes from the DNA you get at birth, and nothing else (genetic aberrations aside, which I feel everyone can agree are special and rare cases). Assuming they are not lunging at the TG community with knives, let them be heterosexual! And that includes not telling them they're afraid of being *homosexual* simply because they don't want to have sex with what is, to their mind, their own gender!

Well said, and entirely logical. And...

Originally Posted by fox_drifter

So please. Live and let live.

If only.

[Sephie]

Originally Posted by fox_drifter

Jesus Christ. I stopped reading this thread on page 5, but in the spirit of it, I'll go ahead and post some personal opinions regardless of how on topic they are.

Live and let live. Not everyone likes TG people. Not everyone likes blondes. Not everyone likes people that read, I don't know, science fiction. Some of this sucks. You might be a blonde. You might be a blonde that *really likes* that guy that doesn't like blondes.

Well, you can go and try and convince him to look past your being blonde or you can find someone else.

I get *exceptionally* tired of hearing the word 'homophobia' bandied about. By some peoples' definition in here, you'd think I were homophobic simply for not wanting to have sex with a man! Put some limits on these things, people! If a guy is turned off by finding out his girlfriend's man-hands come from, in fact, having once been a man, it does not actually make him homophobic! There is a very grounded (and large, notably) group of people that believe one's gender is what comes from the DNA you get at birth, and nothing else (genetic aberrations aside, which I feel everyone can agree are special and rare cases). Assuming they are not lunging at the TG community with knives, let them be heterosexual! And that includes not telling them they're afraid of being *homosexual* simply because they don't want to have sex with what is, to their mind, their own gender!

I find it hugely ironic that many of the TG folks I know find the entire basis of their transition in the flexibility of their gender identity versus their sex, changing their physical form to what they feel is correct psychologically; because they believe (keyword there, 'believe'--isn't what one believes all that matters in this?) gender is not determined by sex alone, they transform themselves! And yet to many here, the idea that someone believes differently, that gender *is* defined by sex, is so abhorrent that they can only fall to violently insulting those with opposing views--people on this forum, who are, in fact, *not* lunging at said TG'd community with knives.

Some of us crazy internet loonies like people transforming into giant werewolves. Some of us like women with dicks and four-foot tongues and every other kind of weirdness. This TG business actually transfers into reality and I understand that. But like the others, it *is* a matter of preference when it comes to lust and love. So please. Live and let live.

Wow. A strawman.

[Magniphile]

Um... why is this thread still in the "Growth" section?

[Anurubius]

Originally Posted by Magniphile

Um... why is this thread still in the "Growth" section?

because it entertains me. *munches popcorn*

[fox_drifter]

Originally Posted by Anurubius

because it entertains me. *munches popcorn*

Entertainment fuels the interwebs!

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Magniphile

Um... why is this thread still in the "Growth" section?

Because it's growing by the second....

[mercury01]

Originally Posted by Herr Onymous-Bosch

Have a Cookie

Don't mind if I do~

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by The Warlock

No. Beliefs and opinions based on not just ignorance, but willful ignorance, are entirely unacceptable.

The Warlock

You're fighting just to fight. He can have whatever stance he wants, whether you like it or not. Do not go into the, "Since you don't agree with me, you are at default wrong". There is always two sides to a story, each holding merit. One side may seem more correct to you because of your life experiences but that doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. Open your mind to the tolerance you preach.

Just stop trying to create a fight where there need be none. I haven't said that you are wrong or idiotic because I believe that you have a very progressive, positive stance. Moreso than me and others. But no matter how unreasonable or dumb our stance may seem, remember that these are REAL feelings that REAL people are experiencing; just like how a man may feel like he is actually a women, our feelings are somewhat similar but geared in a different direction.

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by Herr Onymous-Bosch

Wow. A strawman.

I'm sorry but I fail to see any straw. I see that as a well thought out assessment. He was very respectful in his observation of the situation and presented a very logical assessment; that being because you don't like it, doesn't mean that you are discriminatory against that person but dislike the certain quality or concept they bring or represent. Personally I applaud fox_drifter on that post.

[qzar9999]

Something I thought of today but couldn't add until now. Since I'm being called delusional and ignorant of logic, I thought I'd try a logical approach to this. Stop me if I say something incorrect...

1) Nobody here is claiming telepathy, so I think we all agree none of us can read someone else's mind. Therefore, it's impossible to really know what someone else is truly thinking.
2) We can guess at/assume what others are thinking by observing their words and actions, but that's all it is: a guess or assumption.
3) Therefore, when we observe the words or actions of another--keep up with me, here--we formulate an opinion about what we believe they're thinking. Since we can't know for sure, our hypothesis cannot be proven, so it is not and will never be a fact.

Now let's examine the argument put forth by Rachel, Warlock, etc.

"If you dislike TG people or find them unattractive, you are exhibiting homophobia."

What you're doing there is observing words or actions (the dislike of a TG person) and ascribing a motive to them, i.e. you're stating the other person's reasoning, which is what you think they're thinking. As demonstrated above, this is your opinion, and not a fact. Which was the only problem I had in the first place.

That said, you're probably right about some people; I'm sure there ARE people who dislike TG's out of homophobia. But you can't possibly presume that that applies to every single person who has some issue with TG's. Wait, sorry, you can presume it; you just can't justify it as a fact.

Oh yeah, one more thing: as far as fap/fetish material is concerned, I agree completely with HOB. If it looks, walks, talks, acts like, and claims to be a woman, it's a woman. It doesn't matter to me. But I do stand by my original contention that it DOES matter to some people (else this thread wouldn't exist) and that businesses are obligated to be honest with their customers.