Cautionary message about Amazon Eve

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by qzar9999

Something I thought of today but couldn't add until now. Since I'm being called delusional and ignorant of logic, I thought I'd try a logical approach to this. Stop me if I say something incorrect...

1) Nobody here is claiming telepathy, so I think we all agree none of us can read someone else's mind. Therefore, it's impossible to really know what someone else is truly thinking.
2) We can guess at/assume what others are thinking by observing their words and actions, but that's all it is: a guess or assumption.
3) Therefore, when we observe the words or actions of another--keep up with me, here--we formulate an opinion about what we believe they're thinking. Since we can't know for sure, our hypothesis cannot be proven, so it is not and will never be a fact.

Now let's examine the argument put forth by Rachel, Warlock, etc.

"If you dislike TG people or find them unattractive, you are exhibiting homophobia."

What you're doing there is observing words or actions (the dislike of a TG person) and ascribing a motive to them, i.e. you're stating the other person's reasoning, which is what you think they're thinking. As demonstrated above, this is your opinion, and not a fact. Which was the only problem I had in the first place.

That said, you're probably right about some people; I'm sure there ARE people who dislike TG's out of homophobia. But you can't possibly presume that that applies to every single person who has some issue with TG's. Wait, sorry, you can presume it; you just can't justify it as a fact.

Oh yeah, one more thing: as far as fap/fetish material is concerned, I agree completely with HOB. If it looks, walks, talks, acts like, and claims to be a woman, it's a woman. It doesn't matter to me. But I do stand by my original contention that it DOES matter to some people (else this thread wouldn't exist) and that businesses are obligated to be honest with their customers.

That was alright but didn't really seem to prove much beyond what we already knew (or at least I HOPE everybody else was on the same page). IDK, kinda seemed like a reverberation of what we had beforehand. Then again, it wasn't wrong so THUMBS UP!!!

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by tjlemke

That was alright but didn't really seem to prove much beyond what we already knew (or at least I HOPE everybody else was on the same page). IDK, kinda seemed like a reverberation of what we had beforehand. Then again, it wasn't wrong so THUMBS UP!!!

Some of 'em aren't on the same page, because they're still trying to say that "dislike of TG is homophobia" is fact. That's all I was trying to say in the first place.

[cwmoss]

Eve's kind of gross. It would be better if she was a girl but she's not so I guess I'm an *sshole. cool.

[LOD]

Originally Posted by cwmoss

Eve's kind of gross. It would be better if she was a girl but she's not so I guess I'm an *sshole. cool.

Okay, that's it!

Everyone in the thread pull down your pants and take a picture!

If Eve is a liar until she is proven innocent the same goes for you as well.

Oh and since we can't beleive anyone make sure to write a note to us and stick it next to the gunk you may or may not have

[insomniac]

This sounds like a sexy party!

*pulls down pants*

[Sephie]

Originally Posted by tjlemke

I'm sorry but I fail to see any straw. I see that as a well thought out assessment. He was very respectful in his observation of the situation and presented a very logical assessment; that being because you don't like it, doesn't mean that you are discriminatory against that person but dislike the certain quality or concept they bring or represent. Personally I applaud fox_drifter on that post.

It is a strawman as it attacks a position other than the one held by the opposition. He was very thorough in the descimation of the argument that he constructed to represent his opposition. In other words the arguments that he claims were proposed by me and others were not and he was just putting words in peoples mouths. It is an incredibly dishonest tactic if done deliberately, and implies ignorance of the opposition if not.

[tjlemke]

Originally Posted by Herr Onymous-Bosch

It is a strawman as it attacks a position other than the one held by the opposition. He was very thorough in the descimation of the argument that he constructed to represent his opposition. In other words the arguments that he claims were proposed by me and others were not and he was just putting words in peoples mouths. It is an incredibly dishonest tactic if done deliberately, and implies ignorance of the opposition if not.

Think what you want, I find that message he made up there to be very spot on

[Sephie]

Originally Posted by tjlemke

Think what you want, I find that message he made up there to be very spot on

His refutation is very good. It just is irrelevant to what the other side is claiming.

[The Warlock]

Originally Posted by tjlemke

You're fighting just to fight. He can have whatever stance he wants, whether you like it or not. Do not go into the, "Since you don't agree with me, you are at default wrong". There is always two sides to a story, each holding merit. One side may seem more correct to you because of your life experiences but that doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. Open your mind to the tolerance you preach.

Just stop trying to create a fight where there need be none. I haven't said that you are wrong or idiotic because I believe that you have a very progressive, positive stance. Moreso than me and others. But no matter how unreasonable or dumb our stance may seem, remember that these are REAL feelings that REAL people are experiencing; just like how a man may feel like he is actually a women, our feelings are somewhat similar but geared in a different direction.

I am not fighting, I am stating. I find it odd in the extreme that you are suggesting since I am calling others out for being bigoted, I am being intolerant. Bigotry and prejudice should never be tolerated, and especially not because someone 'feels' it is right. It is not, and it never can be.

Oddly enough those who have their own prejudice pointed out often feel they are being wronged somehow, so they tend to react as if persecuted. I don't really care how they feel. Why should I, when they refuse to even attempt to understand how the women they're talking about feel?

just like how a man may feel like he is actually a women, our feelings are somewhat similar but geared in a different direction.

Your feelings are prejudice based (as all prejudice is) in fear. And they have no merit. As I said, if you were as intelligent as you think you would have realized this and done something about it by now.

I can only assume you are either young or haven't attempted to learn much on this subject, because you have shown yourself to be as ignorant as the above folks.

I leave you with this: Jenny McCarthy feels that vaccinations cause autism. Do her feelings have merit?

The Warlock

[CandyKing]

See, this is why I stopped bothering posting, the guy who is acting the MOST bigoted with personal attacks and insults is happily calling other bigoted simply for having a different opinion. We don't feel wronged because you are calling us bigoted, namely that you are calling us homophobic or whatever simply for having a different opinion, while people like me, tj, and qzar have merely been trying to explain ourselves, even to the point where we have NO PROBLEMS with TG's, we just merely do not want to personally have sex with them.

This post doesn't matter really, I'll just be called homophobic, an idiot, or ignored again.

Bigot (Dictionary.com) - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Since someone asked me to "source" earlier.

Claiming feelings are prejudice based is also patently ridiculous, like somehow having an opinion against anything is bad. By this strange logic, pedophilia, rape, murder, etc are merely just misunderstood and we should keep an open mind. TG is nowhere near these, but the logic of claiming that any kind of feelings or opinions is prejudice which is in turn fear and has no merit is hilariously wrong.

On Jenny McCarthy, stupid, but she is entitled to think what she wants, as long as she isn't trying to force me to believe her, or trying to ban vaccinations, I don't care. Then again I don't know who she even is. But if she IS trying to force change or talk tons about it, science plz, I'm pretty sure that the assumption that vaccinations cause autism has been debunked somewhere, but too lazy to look it up right now.

I am not into body inflation or furries, nor am I into foot jobs or vore, I'm not even into crushing, yet I like giantess and BE. Am I prejudiced or bigoted for this? No, nor do I expect TG's to think low of me, especially if I'm accepting of them in pretty much any other way, whether it be lifestyle or chosen gender or whatever other person tastes they have.

On a board dedicated to processes which are fairly outlandish, you would think people would be able to be more civil in a discussion about this kind of thing, even if they aren't in agreement.

[Sephie]

Originally Posted by CandyKing

See, this is why I stopped bothering posting, the guy who is acting the MOST bigoted with personal attacks and insults is happily calling other bigoted simply for having a different opinion. We don't feel wronged because you are calling us bigoted, namely that you are calling us homophobic or whatever simply for having a different opinion, while people like me, tj, and qzar have merely been trying to explain ourselves, even to the point where we have NO PROBLEMS with TG's, we just merely do not want to personally have sex with them.

This post doesn't matter really, I'll just be called homophobic, an idiot, or ignored again.

Bigot (Dictionary.com) - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Since someone asked me to "source" earlier.

Claiming feelings are prejudice based is also patently ridiculous, like somehow having an opinion against anything is bad. By this strange logic, pedophilia, rape, murder, etc are merely just misunderstood and we should keep an open mind. TG is nowhere near these, but the logic of claiming that any kind of feelings or opinions is prejudice which is in turn fear and has no merit is hilariously wrong.

On Jenny McCarthy, stupid, but as long as she isn't trying to force me to believe her, or trying to ban vaccinations, I don't care. Then again I don't know who she even is. But if she IS trying to force change or talk tons about it, science plz, I'm pretty sure that the assumption that vaccinations cause autism has been debunked somewhere, but too lazy to look it up right now.

Jenny McCarthy is trying to ban vaccinations. It has been debunked. Many times. Her popularity is on the rise.

I would like to add that claiming you do not want to have sex with them because they are TG is a bit bigoted. Not wanting to have sex with them because you are not attracted to them is not. Difference illustrated: You come across an attractive Man or attractive woman (depending on your preferences), you talk with them for a while, get to know their personality and are thinking that they are a nice person. You may even sleep with them once or twice. Then they confide in you that they were not always the gender that they appear to be. If this changes your feelings towards them, then it is bigotry, if not then it is not.

A question to Candy: Do you think that eve is trans?

[CandyKing]

Actually it's not bigoted, because I'm fine with it and not against it, I just don't have a preference for it, much like I don't have a preference for Latino women, yet some people think that they are the hot dog. Secondly if they slept with me without telling me first, yes, I would feel violated and angry, on the other hand if I found out BEFORE we slept together and I happened to like her a lot, I could probably work past it, at least in that what-if scenario, but it would definitely take time. It's my feelings that in a personal relationship they should be open about that, but in public, they don't have to be, because its none of those peoples business.

I also don't care one way or the other about Eve, I assume not, but haven't looked it up, nor do I care to, she looks attractive, which is good enough for me. On the other hand I never get personally invested in models, they are nice to look at and whatnot, but that's all, so I may be the wrong person to ask, same way how I don't know who the heck McCarthy is.

I am not totally against TG's, I've already said they can be near-indistinguishable from real women, but due to my personal beliefs and preferences, being intimate with one would be hard with me, again, just like how I am not into lesbian porn or any other things. Their lifestyle is fine, but I do not indulge in watching it, but I'm happy that they are happy with whatever it is they like doing, good enough for me, it's none of my business and they are entitled to it.

And thats the big thing for me, I believe that they are entitled to express and be themselves in any way they want, and that I don't really need to put restrictions on them as long as they are good people in general. I can know them, acknowledge them, and be happy for others with different lifestyles, but this does not mean that I myself will engage in it simply because I think it is fine for others. Drinking is fine, I do not do it, my friends smoke weed as well on occasion. Do I? Not ever, I just choose not to indulge due to my personal morals, but I have not once here tried to impose them on anyone else by saying "TGs are bad and they should be shunned" or anything like it. I am not so inflexible as to say it's bad, I just choose not to engage in certain behavior because of what I believe for myself, if others find it bigoted, or homophobic, or transphobic, they are entitled to, but in no way do I feel like they should be locked up or caged or oppressed simply because I do not indulge myself in it.

Long post is long.

TLDR I don't think I'm transphobic or homophobic, and try to be accepting in general of different viewpoints, and simply don't indulge in a lot of things myself because of my personal beliefs. However I feel others are free to engage in their actions as long as they are "good" people, which would take too damn long to define anyways. However I am not religious, so don't take me to task on the Christian or whatever view of "good".