D20 Netbook of Expansion

[dragon6860]

benei2, they got rid of BARDS?! The horror...the horror...
Serisouly though, I'm looking forward to 4th edition. Everyone who's previewed it has said that it's solid and a lot of fun to play, so I'm gonna withhold judgment until i get a look at it myself.

[thepencilandpaperguy]

Originally Posted by SexyJin

So there is a Netbook book based around the d20 system of D&D in production? or is it already out?

I understand that the question is "should we go 4e" but i can't see to tell if the 3.5 version is already out and ready to be read.

No, it's not finished yet, but it's close. The artificer losing internet access has delayed it though, as I can't compare notes with him until he gets back. So, as it isn't done, we decided to pose the question in a forum where we'd actually get a response to it.

[ArcaneBEFan]

I vote go 3.5

3.5 is definitely a more well-known system right now, and isn't utterly butchered in a sickening attempt to compete with WoW.

Besides, you did say that most of the work for 3.5 is done, and if we're soo horribly nerdy that we can read this post AND make an informed vote we're already very familiar with 3.5. Who wants to learn an entire new system just so they can apply their fetish material to it? And also (unrelated-ly), I hear 4.0 did away with gnomes (i don't like 4.0)!

Honestly, I'd never use this rulebook but I'd get a huge kick out of simply reading it (that encumberance section was hot), and I'd just enjoy 3.5 cause then I'd know what was going on.

Final Statement: Gnomish Bards need to get BE-ed so they can whack 4.0 with their gigantic boobs.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

benei2, they got rid of BARDS?! The horror...the horror...

Not really, they just got renamed to warlords and the premise behind their abilities is changed. They still remain buffers and all that.

Gnomes are still around too, just they're in the MM and not the player's handbook but you can play one if you want to.

[Kelberon]

I would say to keep it as 3.5. Without getting into any feelings on D&D 4.0, it's just more practical to finish it in the edition you know. And if you like 4.0 enough to make a 4.0 edition, then you won't just have the new system to draw on, but also feedback from other people on the 3.5 edition, to use for improvements.

[cannonfodder]

I say you forget about 4e for this netbook until WotC gets some of the bugs worked out. There are still bugs in 3.5, so I highly doubt that 4e is going to be perfect from the get go. And we all know 3.5 pretty well by this point. I say finish it in 3.5, and then convert it later if there is enough demand for it. Or even better, get somebody else to convert it whilest the guys who did all the work take a break and proof-read/edit the conversion.

[dragon6860]

ARG! I just got a copy of the PHB (Relax, I'm still gonna buy it) and they got rid of DRUIDS! My all time fav class, gone That makes me a very sad panda...not to mention the severe emphasis on miniature gaming. seems to me that you almost CAN'T play it without a miniature set. We shall see...

[microme125]

How the heck can you get your hands on the 4E PHB if it isn't even out yet? Unless you are talking about the Races and Classes book.(though maybe it would be better left unsaid). Anywho I highly doubt that they are going to totally do away with Druids, or any other thing that is truely ingrained in D&D. Ok, the bard is not around, but that doesn't mean they are going to entirely exclude him. They might bring him(and the Druid) in a extra supplement book(though that would make them greedy bastards )
[begin rant]
Personally I am not ready to bash 4E just yet since so little is actually known about it, especially in compairison to our knowledge of 3.5. In addition I think people are being a little to hasty to attack 4E. Just because it is new and different is not grounds for negitive commenting. Remember the name change from Revolution to the Wii? people were very angry, but look at it know, its the front runner in the console wars. And what about the editions before 3 or 3.5? I bet there were people who really loved those editions, and didnt like the idea of 3(yes 3 was broken, but they fixed it when they realized they hadn't properly tested it and releaced 3.5) but now look at our reaction to it. Just about everyone loves 3.5 enough to attack 4E just because they are now accustomed to 3.5. Sure there are some changes(some they admittedly worry me) but we need to wait and see before judge(constructive criticisms aside ).
[end rant]

Back on topic, I agree that it might be best to just release the netbook in 3.5 format, then if you like 4E you might be willing to do an update, and if not then someone might be willing to do it for you.

[Recluse]

I would like to point out to everyone a few misconceptions I think are going around.

First, I've demoed 4th Edition (and I have a copy of Keep on the Shadowfell's quick-play rules, which is better than nothing). It's not as bad as some of you make it out to be, and in fact, I believe it solves a great many problems I've seen over the years I've played 3.0-3.5 rules.

First, they did not 'get rid of' bards or druids. They just didn't release them in the Player's Handbook. Like 3rd edition, there will be many books released down the road offering new classes and races, and you can be sure that those two will see the light of day again... eventually.

One of the main problems that 4E solves is the usefulness of 1st-level casters. A few sources (like the 3E Warlock) got the right idea of giving casters offensive capabilities that could be used over and over again. If you've ever played a wizard just starting out, you know the pain of casting your three magic missiles for the day in the first encounter and feeling useless until you are allowed to sleep again. Now, magic missile is an at-will power, and casters may rejoice.

Classes seem more balanced against each other with the use of powers, a kind of common format given to all the combat capabilities of every class. Now, rather than hoping that a sixth-level fighter's damage per round is roughly equal to a sixth-level sorcerer's fireball, there is actually a basis for measurement. You can compare the powers available for wizards and fighters at sixth level, and see that they are roughly equal in power.

All in all, the 4E rules seem less about subscribing to a standard of realism in the fantasy world, and more about making a balanced, fun game. That said, there are some things I don't agree with. For example, it doesn't appear that you can use some of the special combat actions anymore - you have to have a class feature or power that will let you use them. While it's realistic to think that wizards or rangers could trip, disarm, grapple, or push someone over if they really needed to, the 3.5 rules that let anyone and everyone do so just seemed to slow things down.

Bottom line: If you enjoy faster-paced gameplay with less arguing about rules and more play, try Fourth edition. If you like realism to the point of creating a mountain of rules to bicker over (an endless source of enjoyment for me, I assure you), stick with 3.5. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's the Reader's Digest version; I don't want to bore you with too many details.

[thepencilandpaperguy]

Originally Posted by Recluse

I would like to point out to everyone a few misconceptions I think are going around.

First, I've demoed 4th Edition (and I have a copy of Keep on the Shadowfell's quick-play rules, which is better than nothing). It's not as bad as some of you make it out to be, and in fact, I believe it solves a great many problems I've seen over the years I've played 3.0-3.5 rules.

First, they did not 'get rid of' bards or druids. They just didn't release them in the Player's Handbook. Like 3rd edition, there will be many books released down the road offering new classes and races, and you can be sure that those two will see the light of day again... eventually.

One of the main problems that 4E solves is the usefulness of 1st-level casters. A few sources (like the 3E Warlock) got the right idea of giving casters offensive capabilities that could be used over and over again. If you've ever played a wizard just starting out, you know the pain of casting your three magic missiles for the day in the first encounter and feeling useless until you are allowed to sleep again. Now, magic missile is an at-will power, and casters may rejoice.

Classes seem more balanced against each other with the use of powers, a kind of common format given to all the combat capabilities of every class. Now, rather than hoping that a sixth-level fighter's damage per round is roughly equal to a sixth-level sorcerer's fireball, there is actually a basis for measurement. You can compare the powers available for wizards and fighters at sixth level, and see that they are roughly equal in power.

All in all, the 4E rules seem less about subscribing to a standard of realism in the fantasy world, and more about making a balanced, fun game. That said, there are some things I don't agree with. For example, it doesn't appear that you can use some of the special combat actions anymore - you have to have a class feature or power that will let you use them. While it's realistic to think that wizards or rangers could trip, disarm, grapple, or push someone over if they really needed to, the 3.5 rules that let anyone and everyone do so just seemed to slow things down.

Bottom line: If you enjoy faster-paced gameplay with less arguing about rules and more play, try Fourth edition. If you like realism to the point of creating a mountain of rules to bicker over (an endless source of enjoyment for me, I assure you), stick with 3.5. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's the Reader's Digest version; I don't want to bore you with too many details.

Yes, they're going to release a new core 3 every year, at $40 a pop, US, so, as a DM, that means that I'll have to shell out a min of 120 per annum or listen to the players whine about what I'm not lettin them do/play. Throw in the online-only portion, and that I've allready blown thousands on 3.5, and, no thanks, they can keep it.

That and our group is boycotting anything new from WotC ever since Dragon Magazine was slain. (Though I do subscribe to Pathfinder.)

[Recluse]

Originally Posted by thepencilandpaperguy

Yes, they're going to release a new core 3 every year, at $40 a pop

Holy Hell. I hadn't heard about that.

Well, with any luck, the updates to the core rules will be collected in the SRD, an online document sanctioned by Wizards that is both legal and free.

For the 3.5 version, see here: http://www.d20srd.org

[microme125]

But its not like you cant find the same books on different websites(Ebay, amazon,etc.) at a cheaper price. Heck I got a special edition DM book plus like 5 other assorted D&D books super cheap at a Building 19(for those who dont know it is like a warehouse crossed with a store, all sorts of stuff is sent there if a store doesn't want/need it or if they are classified as damaged/improper to sell normally. Mind you all of the stuff they sell is largely unused). While I know it is rather foolish to expect 4E books to be found in such places as soon as they are released, but it is an alternative method. The only material I actually consider buying directly (after I am somewhat sure they wont spring a 4.5 or something on us) is Eberron source books. I love that Edition SOOOOO much....the Artificer makes me so giddy(the class I mean).