Mary Jane Meets The Moon Sequence

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Oh WOW, my bad. Vile misunderstanding of the basic premise of auto-erotic asphyxiation, we meet again!
I think, for the longest time, that I confused auto-erotic asphyxiation with auto-erotic manipulation, and... the rest is history.
Dumbass mistakes to the rescue!

People die from getting those mixed up.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that there's now two more pages of the sequence up. The most recent one is sort of rough, might have been concept stuff.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Man just by reading the description full moon wrote, that he is highly upset. Especially since it was a paid commission, and by the looks, not a cheap one... Oh well, for whatever reason, I'm sure hoping it had to take something as drastic as pilot's case. But even then ranzab could've at least fufilled some of his paid work.

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by x?xShadow_Dragonx?x

Man just by reading the description full moon wrote, that he is highly upset. Especially since it was a paid commission, and by the looks, not a cheap one... Oh well, for whatever reason, I'm sure hoping it had to take something as drastic as pilot's case. But even then ranzab could've at least fufilled some of his paid work.

...or, *gasp*, refunded the commission...

I know, I know. In this economy, them's fightin' werdz...

[hexen]

Too much trust goes into those comissions, being as paranoid as I am it would take long to trust an artist that I only see online enough to comission something. I certainly understand FullMoonMaster's issues, but I can't stop wishing that Ranzab will show up somehow and finish the job...

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by hexen

Too much trust goes into those comissions, being as paranoid as I am it would take long to trust an artist that I only see online enough to comission something. I certainly understand FullMoonMaster's issues, but I can't stop wishing that Ranzab will show up somehow and finish the job...

I'm going to assume some things here, so forgive me if I'm way off-base, but here goes nothing.

FullMoonMaster has every right to be upset here.
Ranzab took the money, and - assuming that each commission was independently funded on a completion basis - failed to deliver the paid-for product.
He failed to deliver even a HINT of the paid-for product.
That's NOT a simple "I wish to disappear" situation. That's called FRAUD. It is A CRIME.
I get pissed on an awful lot for not always jumping to the defense of these forums' rules, but this is not that.
These are real laws, agreed upon by the whole of modern society, which are being flouted for personal financial gain. Whatever the end result - be it for good or ill - Ranzab's means are wholly illegal.

Now, that being said, I suppose we should be grateful that he didn't just shit out a couple random doodles and call it "done." That'd be arguably MORE dishonest, and grounds for a civil suit, which would make him more of a potential liability than any criminal charge ever could.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

I'm going to assume some things here, so forgive me if I'm way off-base, but here goes nothing.

FullMoonMaster has every right to be upset here.
Ranzab took the money, and - assuming that each commission was independently funded on a completion basis - failed to deliver the paid-for product.
He failed to deliver even a HINT of the paid-for product.
That's NOT a simple "I wish to disappear" situation. That's called FRAUD. It is A CRIME.
I get pissed on an awful lot for not always jumping to the defense of these forums' rules, but this is not that.
These are real laws, agreed upon by the whole of modern society, which are being flouted for personal financial gain. Whatever the end result - be it for good or ill - Ranzab's means are wholly illegal.

Now, that being said, I suppose we should be grateful that he didn't just shit out a couple random doodles and call it "done." That'd be arguably MORE dishonest, and grounds for a civil suit, which would make him more of a potential liability than any criminal charge ever could.

Again ill reinstate my reference to the whole pilot scenario. Also, considering the fact that nolaf openly stated his leaving the community and his reasons, I can only surmise that Ranzab befell a similar, if not, much more grim situation.

While it is completely wrong of him to have abandoned the community completely without a trace, I believe we should also observe this issue with a speculative appeal.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

I'm going to assume some things here, so forgive me if I'm way off-base, but here goes nothing.

FullMoonMaster has every right to be upset here.
Ranzab took the money, and - assuming that each commission was independently funded on a completion basis - failed to deliver the paid-for product.
He failed to deliver even a HINT of the paid-for product.
That's NOT a simple "I wish to disappear" situation. That's called FRAUD. It is A CRIME.
I get pissed on an awful lot for not always jumping to the defense of these forums' rules, but this is not that.
These are real laws, agreed upon by the whole of modern society, which are being flouted for personal financial gain. Whatever the end result - be it for good or ill - Ranzab's means are wholly illegal.

Now, that being said, I suppose we should be grateful that he didn't just shit out a couple random doodles and call it "done." That'd be arguably MORE dishonest, and grounds for a civil suit, which would make him more of a potential liability than any criminal charge ever could.

What do you mean 'failed to deliver even a hint of the paid for product'? We can clearly see he completed at least 5 full pages of it. That's well more than a hint. Apparently no one has heard from Ranzab in 2 years, he may not even be alive at this point. How about you hold off on the accusations of fraud until you can prove the guy didn't just die unexpectedly years ago?

[vincent_richter]

]EDIT[

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

What do you mean 'failed to deliver even a hint of the paid for product'? We can clearly see he completed at least 5 full pages of it. That's well more than a hint.

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Ranzab took the money, and - assuming that each commission was independently funded on a completion basis - failed to deliver the paid-for product.

I call out the relevant portion there. Substantial completion "of the whole" is irrelevant if each piece was independently commissioned.
This is a well-known aspect of contract law, and isn't really a battle worth fighting; after all, define "the whole" in this scenario. If the pieces were individually commissioned, there's no way of knowing or proving that definition.

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

Apparently no one has heard from Ranzab in 2 years, he may not even be alive at this point. How about you hold off on the accusations of fraud until you can prove the guy didn't just die unexpectedly years ago?

I'd love to assume the worst, because it makes what he did excusable. It's cold and it's heartless, but it's also the truth. Right now, I'm siding with Occam's Razor; that being, that the number of scam artists jacking people's cash for their own slight gain, far outnumbers the number of artists vanishing from the Internet due to whatever physical ailment they suffer. I'm also siding with onus probandi, which will be the FIRST thing established at any trial. Again, cold and heartless. That's our legal system, to a "T".

Of course, if something untoward DID happen to Raznab, I'd feel terrible about these posts, and wish that evidence were brought to light sooner. Discovery's a real bitch, sometimes. That being said, I cannot assume that he's dead, either; that makes it too easy to write off a potential wrong.
]/EDIT[

Originally Posted by x†xShadow_Dragonx†x

Again ill reinstate my reference to the whole pilot scenario. Also, considering the fact that nolaf openly stated his leaving the community and his reasons, I can only surmise that Tanzania befell a similar, if not, much more grim situation.

While it is completely wrong of him to have abandoned the community completely without a trace, I believe we should also observe this issue with a speculative appeal.

Do me a HUGE favor here. Don't defend him on that one point. Refunding the payment is a simple matter.

I'm all for an artist packing his bags whenever he's tired, or scared, or progressing, or whatever reason they want to give.
Jacking the cash and refusing delivery IS NOT the same thing.
I'll say it again, because it bears repeating. It is FRAUD. It is A CRIME. It hurts REAL. FUCKING. PEOPLE.

If you're really onboard with someone taking the money and running, I'd like to let you know that I'd be happy to sell you a Lamborghini for $100, payable immediately to my PayPal account, sight unseen.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

If the pieces were individually commissioned

You based your whole argument on that one point. You've made a series of huge assumptions. You assume they were individually commissioned, you assume he's committed fraud, you also assume that the letter of the law regarding fraud is the same everywhere. You aren't even considering the difference in state laws in conjunction with federal law. Contract law is not universal, it can vary from place to place and that has to be taken into account when transactions take place across state lines or between people residing in different countries.

So really.. assumption assumption assumption on your part mixed in with a fair amount of anger (unless I'm misreading the shouting portions) that's probably misdirected. I'll remind you that you do not know any of the details surrounding this situation aside from the fact that the commission was paid for and not completed. You've made gigantic assumptions based on limited information that portrays events in a way that makes things appear far worse than they may actually be.

He may be dead. He may have suffered injuries to his drawing hand. There are countless possible reasons why this happened, yet you admittedly assume foul play without evidence to support that. That's not cool. Give him the benefit of the doubt until you have an actual credible bit of information that supports your claim of fraud.

[vincent_richter]

Dude, I like you too much to assume that you just ignored me, so I'm going to assume that you simply missed the disclaimer I made to try to prevent this very response.
The fact of the matter is that I've simply been burned too many times, to where it's nearly impossible for me to AGF on the Internet.
Right now, he's dropped off the face of the Earth, with the money.
Even if you're hellbent on defending the guy, you gotta admit that this doesn't exactly look good, either.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Dude, I like you too much to assume that you just ignored me, so I'm going to assume that you simply missed the disclaimer I made to try to prevent this very response.
The fact of the matter is that I've simply been burned too many times, to where it's nearly impossible for me to AGF on the Internet.
Right now, he's dropped off the face of the Earth, with the money.
Even if you're hellbent on defending the guy, you gotta admit that this doesn't exactly look good, either.

I guess I did miss that part, and yes I realize it doesn't look good. Really no matter which of us is right, it's still a bad situation. But I'm also open to the possibility that neither of us is right.

He's one of my favorite artists, so that could make me biased on this. I'd really hate to think he did just run off with the money with the intention of screwing over the person who commissioned it. I'd also hate to think he was dead. I know either scenario is possible, but without any evidence I'm not inclined to draw a conclusion yet.

[vincent_richter]

I'd like to assume that it's just a matter of a good artist that felt cornered and backed out, simply neglecting the responsibilities which that entails. Or, hell, for all I know, he was commissioned for the whole thing as a one-shot deal, and this IS substantial completion. I can't argue that from what I know.

Honestly, I don't think Zarnab backed out with the intention of hurting anyone, but he did. Full_Moon_Master's response is enough to indicate that much. The part that pains me is that, if anything comes of this, it'll judge his actions more than his state-of-mind. That's right and honest, but is it just? I just don't have enough information to say that there's a right conclusion at this point in time.