Missed TF Opportunities in RE5

[Cursebearer]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

No part of that matches with what a virus is. If Capcom called it a virus, it still doesn't mean it is one. It just means that someone at Capcom doesn't know what a virus is. A virus is not a living thing to begin with. Uroboros as we have seen is a living organism that invades, and mutates it's host into an unrecognizable mess. But it doesn't destroy it's host like a virus would. It's a symbiotic parasite, a highly aggressive one true enough, but not a virus. A virus isn't just another word for microorganism or bug, it's a specific description of the nature and habits of an biological entity. Viruses kill their host, parasites live off their host. It is in the parasite's best interest to not kill it's host. A virus on the other hand simply uses the host's cells as a means to reproduce itself and spread. A virus is considered "non-life", it does not really match the definition of a living thing, it can't reproduce on it's own, and it's essentially a rogue particle of DNA that gets inside another organism and begins making copies of itself by consuming the cells of the host. That is not what the Uroboros does, it instead merges with the host and both continue to live, though the host is impacted very negatively by this arrangement, it's behavior changes, it's body changes, and ultimately it could die from bullet related complications as a result of the merger. But it is still not a virus.

As I've stated previously, it DOES destroy its host. It's not mutation, the virus eats the hosts body and rapidly reproduces itself by doing so. This is almost exactly what a virus does, even if Oroboros goes into strange science-fiction territory afterward. Excella DIED when Oroboros burst out of her, the resulting creature was an entirely different entity that ate her. Oroboros doesn't reproduce on its own. Like a virus, it needs host cells to corrupt and then destroy to make more of itself. The ONLY case in which Oroboros actually merges with and changes a host is when that host is accepted by the virus. The only one who even might have done that is Wesker. In most ways, it indeed fits the description of a virus.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by Magugag

As I've stated previously, it DOES destroy its host. It's not mutation, the virus eats the hosts body and rapidly reproduces itself by doing so. This is almost exactly what a virus does, even if Oroboros goes into strange science-fiction territory afterward. Excella DIED when Oroboros burst out of her, the resulting creature was an entirely different entity that ate her. Oroboros doesn't reproduce on its own. Like a virus, it needs host cells to corrupt and then destroy to make more of itself. The ONLY case in which Oroboros actually merges with and changes a host is when that host is accepted by the virus. The only one who even might have done that is Wesker. In most ways, it indeed fits the description of a virus.

It doesn't destroy it's host. The player destroys it's host when he or she shoots it. It does mutate the host, you can clearly see the evidence of that throughout the game. If it killed it's host then the host would simply fall over and die when it's head burst open, but it doesn't die. The host continues to move about as if directed by a brain. This displays the fact that the parasite and host have merged into a single being, the host brain my no longer exist, but the body still lives. Excella may have ceased to exist as Excella the human when she transformed, but she didn't die until the player fried her with the orbital laser.

As far as Wesker goes, he was genetically engineered to be the perfect host for the Uroboros parasite. With him, he's in control of it rather than it being in control of him, that is the only difference. It's that same engineering that allowed him to gain powers from the T-Virus rather than turn into a zombie or Tyrant.

[Cursebearer]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

It doesn't destroy it's host. The player destroys it's host when he or she shoots it. It does mutate the host, you can clearly see the evidence of that throughout the game. If it killed it's host then the host would simply fall over and die when it's head burst open, but it doesn't die. The host continues to move about as if directed by a brain. This displays the fact that the parasite and host have merged into a single being, the host brain my no longer exist, but the body still lives. Excella may have ceased to exist as Excella the human when she transformed, but she didn't die until the player fried her with the orbital laser.

As far as Wesker goes, he was genetically engineered to be the perfect host for the Uroboros parasite. With him, he's in control of it rather than it being in control of him, that is the only difference. It's that same engineering that allowed him to gain powers from the T-Virus rather than turn into a zombie or Tyrant.

Again, it is NOT a transformation. The Uroboros virus consumes the dead flesh to propagate itself. Excella was eaten, not transformed. If you'll look through the notes in the game, you'll see this said several times. When rejected, Oroboros eats its host and replicates itself.

[TF-Viewer]

*shakes head*

It's still a transformation. I'm sorry to have to keep disagreeing with you. The wording they use in the files and the visual evidence on the screen when you play do not match up. Notice how the tentacle creatures still maintain a human shape after "consuming" their host. Notice how the creature has organs only after "consuming" the host, but not before, that's evidence of a transformation of the host, a merger of the two organisms. The fact that it was alive inside the tanks that Wesker was transporting, as whole creatures, existing without a host in a basically larval state proves it's not some virus. Viruses don't work like that. Even a parasite can cause the death of it's host, under it's ideal conditions it won't, but immune responses can cause complications that result in death for either host or parasite or both. Excella's flesh wasn't even dead when you claim she was "eaten" so the idea that it eats dead flesh doesn't even match with that statement.

We haven't even mentioned the giant boss encounter in the driving level, or the huge bat-like insect, the mutated roaches, or the dogs. Those are all obvious mutations with parasites living inside them (with perhaps the exception of the roaches). How about the mutated tribe members in the marsh levels? The ones who when shot have their entire upper bodies reconfigure into a gaping maw to eat you with, yet they still walk around on human legs as if the same brain was still controlling them.

[Cursebearer]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

*shakes head*

It's still a transformation. I'm sorry to have to keep disagreeing with you. The wording they use in the files and the visual evidence on the screen when you play do not match up. Notice how the tentacle creatures still maintain a human shape after "consuming" their host. Notice how the creature has organs only after "consuming" the host, but not before, that's evidence of a transformation of the host, a merger of the two organisms. The fact that it was alive inside the tanks that Wesker was transporting, as whole creatures, existing without a host in a basically larval state proves it's not some virus. Viruses don't work like that. Even a parasite can cause the death of it's host, under it's ideal conditions it won't, but immune responses can cause complications that result in death for either host or parasite or both. Excella's flesh wasn't even dead when you claim she was "eaten" so the idea that it eats dead flesh doesn't even match with that statement.

We haven't even mentioned the giant boss encounter in the driving level, or the huge bat-like insect, the mutated roaches, or the dogs. Those are all obvious mutations with parasites living inside them (with perhaps the exception of the roaches). How about the mutated tribe members in the marsh levels? The ones who when shot have their entire upper bodies reconfigure into a gaping maw to eat you with, yet they still walk around on human legs as if the same brain was still controlling them.

It's no more a transformation than an alien chest-burster transforms its host! The tribe members, the dogs, and the bat creature were all mutated by the Las Plagas! It's a completely different organism and infection from the Oroboros virus, which you only see in action a few times through the entire game. The Las Plagas are indeed parasites. Oroboros is a virus that eats its host. It eats both dead and living flesh, killing its victims. The information in the game is very explicit on what happens when one is rejected by Oroboros. The fact that it retains a human shape is sheerly because it hasn't yet finished eating its victims, which are carried along inside the writhing mass. Excella was indeed destroyed by Oroboros.

[TF-Viewer]

Very well, but the fact that Uroborus behaves in such a manner as to attempt to merge with it's host and only killing it upon rejection means that it's nature is not purely viral, and the fact that it kills it's host at all means it's not purely parasitic. It's some strange combination of virus and parasite acting in a completely different manner depending on the host body's attempt to fight it off.

Las Plagas however.. is not even the name of the parasite. That word simply means "the plague", it was only a description by the locals in RE4. In RE5 it wasn't called that, they were called Majini as that's what the locals called them. The entire story of the origin of Uroborus is not known, but the similarities in their behavior, most notably their bondings or attempting bondings to their hosts suggests that the "Las Plagas/Majini" parasite could have been used as a component in the creation of Uroboros. And that is why I have directly associated them, perhaps mistakenly, but perhaps not if indeed Wesker used the parasite as a model for creating Uroboros.

[Cursebearer]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

Very well, but the fact that Uroborus behaves in such a manner as to attempt to merge with it's host and only killing it upon rejection means that it's nature is not purely viral, and the fact that it kills it's host at all means it's not purely parasitic. It's some strange combination of virus and parasite acting in a completely different manner depending on the host body's attempt to fight it off.

Las Plagas however.. is not even the name of the parasite. That word simply means "the plague", it was only a description by the locals in RE4. In RE5 it wasn't called that, they were called Majini as that's what the locals called them. The entire story of the origin of Uroborus is not known, but the similarities in their behavior, most notably their bondings or attempting bondings to their hosts suggests that the "Las Plagas/Majini" parasite could have been used as a component in the creation of Uroboros. And that is why I have directly associated them, perhaps mistakenly, but perhaps not if indeed Wesker used the parasite as a model for creating Uroboros.

Beyond the fact that the parasites were still known as 'Plaga' in research notes in RE5, I agree with you. The parasite species is known as Las Plagas, while the hosts are known as the Ganados and Majini in RE4 and 5 respectively. These definitely have some transformative abilities, and if Uroboros is in fact based on them in some ways (as is heavily hinted) you're totally right and Uroboros can't be completely classified as a virus. I hope we get to see some transformation from it in the future of the series... If Wesker didn't completely fuse with it, I'm curious as to what that might look like. Especially with a female subject.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by Magugag

Beyond the fact that the parasites were still known as 'Plaga' in research notes in RE5, I agree with you. The parasite species is known as Las Plagas, while the hosts are known as the Ganados and Majini in RE4 and 5 respectively. These definitely have some transformative abilities, and if Uroboros is in fact based on them in some ways (as is heavily hinted) you're totally right and Uroboros can't be completely classified as a virus. I hope we get to see some transformation from it in the future of the series... If Wesker didn't completely fuse with it, I'm curious as to what that might look like. Especially with a female subject.

A female subject would be interesting. Though from the rumors I've heard Capcom plans to "reboot" the series. So our next installment of Resident Evil may not be RE6 but another remake of the first one. Whether there's any truth to that, or whether they'll redo the first RE with parasites instead of old school zombies I'll guess we can only wait and see.

[Cursebearer]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

A female subject would be interesting. Though from the rumors I've heard Capcom plans to "reboot" the series. So our next installment of Resident Evil may not be RE6 but another remake of the first one. Whether there's any truth to that, or whether they'll redo the first RE with parasites instead of old school zombies I'll guess we can only wait and see.

Really?? A reboot of the series could be cool... As a TF fan, I have to admit the series has always had potential, and as a Resident Evil fan I really want to go back to actual zombies somewhere along the line... Well now I'm even more curious what we'll see next!

[TF-Viewer]

I too would like traditional zombies again, I miss them so.

[Sutibaru]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

What manga did the idea originate from?

An infamous manga called Parasyte. Sure it's not the exact same design, but it's close enough. I have read where other have noticed the same similarities.

http://www.onemanga.com/Parasyte/23/02/
http://www.onemanga.com/Parasyte/56/28/

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by Sutibaru

An infamous manga called Parasyte. Sure it's not the exact same design, but it's close enough. I have read where other have noticed the same similarities.

http://www.onemanga.com/Parasyte/23/02/
http://www.onemanga.com/Parasyte/56/28/

Yes, there are definitely strong similarities in the appearances of the parasites.