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Unread 09-03-2012   #97
Rei-Lin
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Not to be the Debbie downer, but I think the Werewolf clip will still be a ways away. A few reasons? Well they are just getting the hang of the props and in fact are working up to getting better props that look better, and better make-up artists to do better make-up effects. All of that takes time and money. The more money they put towards it, the better it will look of course but I think the Werewolf Transformation will be one of the hardest ones to do, mainly because the people like us waiting on it are very hard to please. Another reason is that Bud said they will do something along the lines of putting up a donation site to take money to buy what they need for the clip once they're ready to go that far. I don't know how much they would set for a goal or anything, but some of the props they've been trying to do, for example, a fake pulsating arm, cost well in excess of $3000+! Ouch!

So we'll know when they're ready to do this, but patience is definitely going to be required from us, as well as support on the money side of it. I'm hopeful that as they get more transformation videos under their belts, they'll figure out how to do more with less money and still produce some quality clips. But the king of the crop, Werewolf? I'd love their first one to be really well done and special. But I know it won't please everybody, nor should it in my opinion. I think just because they do one, they can do others, with different twists on the same theme! I can wait! Well sorta not really, but I will! Just wanted to throw that out there. Take care.
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Unread 09-13-2012   #98
BudapestSwopeJr
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

We don't want to do a half-ass werewolf clip even though the longer it takes the higher the expectations might be. We still won't make one until we feel like we have a decent shot of making a good one.
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Unread 09-13-2012   #99
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudapestSwopeJr View Post
We don't want to do a half-ass werewolf clip even though the longer it takes the higher the expectations might be. We still won't make one until we feel like we have a decent shot of making a good one.
For me that's the idea. I don't mind to wait one or two years if something impressing can be shown afterwards. Well, I've waited longer for lame high-budget disappointing movies, believe me.
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Unread 09-13-2012   #100
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Yeah, seconded. The wait is nothing if it produces a TF you guys can feel confident in.
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Unread 09-13-2012   #101
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

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Originally Posted by Cursebearer View Post
Yeah, seconded. The wait is nothing if it produces a TF you guys can feel confident in.
Thirded...if that's even a word
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Unread 09-13-2012   #102
Rei-Lin
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Just popping in for a second here. I agree the wait is worth it as long as the product is worth the wait. I'd like to think the wait will be worth it for this type of clip, and for me, regardless of what happens, I'll buy the clip and others they produce because I love what they do and plan to support them 100%. What I hope doesn't happen is the same thing that happens with the usual Hollywood produced Werewolf movies: they end up sucking ass after a LONG wait.

Why am I stating the obvious or in my opinion, what should be obvious? Because I've seen the opinions of people on these forums, and I know how negative things can get, especially if a clip comes out that isn't up to this or that "Standard" so to say. I guess I'm asking people to remember that TMC isn't Hollywood, they don't have millions to dump into this type of thing. Unless somehow Rick Baker happens to run across TMC's transformation clips and decides to support them by doing all the effects work for free or something, don't expect his level of effects right off the bat. If you go into this with that type of hype or expectation, you're just going to be upset that you're not seeing "Female American Werewolf in London".

I'm not trying to be negative toward TMC or anybody else to be honest. TMC works hard and constantly, trying to improve their work, and they have taken some big leaps and come a long way over the last few years. Just a quick browse of other fetish sites should prove that to you really quick. I expect their Werewolf clip to be very well done with lots of suggestions and effects thrown in from all of us. I'm content with that and I hope people remember where it's all coming from. Effects like in American Werewolf were just as much about having a ton of money as having the talent. Keep that in mind as TMC starts doing this stuff and I think all of you will enjoy the clips for what they are, more than what you hoped they would be. Just my two cents here. Take care!
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Unread 09-13-2012   #103
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Agreeing with rei-lin, except that TMC doesn't necessarily require a huge budget for a decent clip. It's based on taking some time for planning and creative use of affordable props, camerapositions etc. I honestly believe they can get a good quality done right if they really go for it.

The only problem is it's a gamble whether they hit the mark or not....and if they don't then it's to hope the negativity doesn't reduce their future efforts.
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Unread 09-14-2012   #104
BudapestSwopeJr
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

If we find a sfx/makeup artist that is talented and can work within the restraints of the kind of production we do then the werewolf clip will get done sooner then later. Its not really a question of money that much either as it is finding someone who can work with us effectively.

The makeup artists we have used so far haven't even been able to blend the edges of a simple nose appliance so we're certainly not going to be using them for anything more difficult. I've recently hired a sfx artist to do something else for us and if he ends up doing good shit then the very next thing he's going to do are some TF props I have ideas for but he's not even in the same state so we still need to find someone else that can be there on shoot days.
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Unread 09-14-2012   #105
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudapestSwopeJr
The makeup artists we have used so far haven't even been able to blend the edges of a simple nose appliance so we're certainly not going to be using them for anything more difficult.
Honestly - and this is probably a separate discussion here - you paint the picture that anyone with a brush can "be" a makeup artist. Has the market really gotten so saturated with talentless hacks that it's creating a higher barrier-to-entry for anyone who can blend simple appendage prosthetics (this is NOT a difficult process)?

That's kinda depressing... you have my sympathy...

EDIT: Don't take this too much to heart; it just seems that you've been thrown an awful lot of the chaff lately, and should probably have people present portfolios of their work in advance.
I realize this cuts down on opportunities, but look at it this way: you're giving yourselves more time to vet the candidates you want to work on your productions.
It's win-win, because you get better quality - assuming they're not completely deceitful, lying asshats - and your production values skyrocket (which I don't have to tell you what that means for sales )

Of course, if you're doing a lot of work with relative newcomers, it might not hurt to send them a decent primer and see if they learned anything from it.
That being said, if they show up with a trowel and KrazyGlue (hyperbole, of course), they should probably get a jackboot to the ass.
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Last edited by vincent_richter; 09-14-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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Unread 09-14-2012   #106
BudapestSwopeJr
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Several people have posted links on our forum and in other threads on this forum to various sites that sell prosthetics, masks and appliances hoping we would start integrating it into our clips.

Help me understand your mindset here. An appliance or a mask is a static effect no matter how its applied or revealed by our camera. In one shot it won't be there and in the next shot it will. The growth fans would call that a "poof" transformation or a "poof" effect in that it shows no visible process.

Our inflation, futa & growth clips are all live action process clips where you see things changing in the shot and not between shots. Its a bit of a struggle for us to come up with ways to show process happening onscreen in TF clips. I think Taylor has added some sort of inflation to the TF clips she's made so far just because she is used to people wanting PROCESS on screen and its a struggle to make TF elements do that. I thought she did a real nice job of making the ears in the dog clip grow for example. But noses, chins, cat contact lenses, and other such fx are very difficult to do anything with but simply reveal them.

So what is it that most of you are looking for?

Am I making any sense?
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Unread 09-14-2012   #107
dorintf
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

Yep. I'm of the opinion that anything that can be shown with a process should be shown with a process. But if it's a matter of sacrificing good prosthetics for bad ones that can easily be used in a process, I'd go with the good ones. Or better yet, do a combination of the two. Have a process with the easy-to-use prosthetic, then do a "poof" over to the better one. That way, technically, the TF is still in stages, you just get to see the transition from A to B, but not from B to C. Movie studios do this all the time in TFs.

But that's just me. And I also hope we're not coming off as unpleasing fans here. The ear TF you mentioned in the dog TF was exactly what most of us are looking for, and the whisker and claws were good too. You're definitely on the right track, and I for one really look forward to your new stuff. After the pig TF I wasn't a fan, but after the donkey one it was evident you are really trying to do good TFs and we'll keep supporting you.

Ninja Edit: Also, I'd like to stress that just because you have an inflatable prosthetic doesn't mean you need to use it. I personally like BE, but the back inflation in the dog TF made her look like she was turning into a camel. That stuff should be used sparingly or not at all--simple vertebrae movement, not full-on hump growth.
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Unread 09-14-2012   #108
Rei-Lin
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Re: TMC Werewolf?

What Bud was saying is exactly what I was thinking as well. People keep saying use better prosthetic pieces and while that is certainly one way to improve the quality, seeing as how the majority of this community wants PROCESS, then what people want are animatronic hands, arms, feet, teeth, heads, spines, etc. They want American Werewolf effects, or effects like in The Howling. Growing claws, spines popping out, fangs growing, all the stuff we know and love from the old school of Rick Baker effects. The make up appliances is fine to use as say the start and end to an effect, and of course more expensive ones will look better. But that in between, those process shots, that's what people really want to see. Those are the effects that cost money, a lot of money for something such a small community as this would probably be less likely to pay for (and I don't mean everybody here, as some people would pay for it no matter what). I mean if people here can complain about spending $20 for a clip, can you imagine if they had to pay $50?

While I think TMC will get better, and they are making efforts to do so, you have to take things in smaller steps. I understand people want better of everything, but that comes over time, with lots of trial and error, and usually, more money. Let them get the better make up stuff first and we'll see where that goes. I hope they do upgrade that aspect first, as I think they have a decent grasp on how to set up the shots at this point, it's just a matter of refinement now.

A side note for you Dorintf, I think the back inflation was meant to replicate something similar to America Werewolf when his shoulder blades pushed upwards and he was left with that "hump" covered in fur. Another clip similar to that was the wolfman transformation in Monster Squad. Sure TMC's wasn't perfect, but I see the potential for it's future use in other clips. Now if they can get that spine to pop and shirt to rip...yum!
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