BE in Sims 4

[zenaku]

So, the Sims has always been known for the ability to customize your character's appearence. But apparently, in the Sims 4, this is taken even deeper. Now you are able to simply click on the area you want to adjust and from there you can 'push or pull' to adjust it. As seen here in a demo video, the create pulls on the womans breasts to make them bigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZmtGfTj-to#t=45

[TF-Viewer]

That's cool.

[Beetlebomb]

Question is, how big can we make them?

[Choppy]

Sims has always been so fun but now am curious if they're gonna have co-op as I've heard from rumors...but either way BE simple enough

[Amazeroth]

Hm, i was a Fan of the Sims Games too. But as i read how much EA cut out on Sims 4 for release (no Toddlers or Pools as example) just to bring it 3 months later as AddOn i think that i don't buy it.

[NimrodClover]

I have never played a SIMS game but the interface on SIMS4 appears to be one of the more detailed in terms of subtle manipulation. There are some other good avatar makers out there and demos can be found on YouTube and such.

One of the most interesting things to watch is a person making a likeness of themselves. In most avatar systems you can only get so close - however in these good ones, like SIMS4 it depends more on how well a person understands how they actually appear.

I watched one lady attempt to create a likeness of Kim Kardashian and most of the video is spent trying to get her make-up "right" even though most every other aspect was physically wrong and well within the range of the software to mimic. For most of the video I am thinking, "fix the eyes, chin, neck, arms, torso, legs,... everything!"

In the final seconds of the video she zipped around and added a larger bust and hips and done! The end result was sort of like her - I think the hair color was right at least.

Cool program but only as good as the end user's skills.

[Litch]

What I'm waiting for is a real procedural manipulator. Sure you cam stretch your sims boobs to x amount but I reckon it'd be really cool to be able to make each generation bustier and bustier. Till one day they can no longer walk

[NimrodClover]

Originally Posted by Litch

What I'm waiting for is a real procedural manipulator. Sure you cam stretch your sims boobs to x amount but I reckon it'd be really cool to be able to make each generation bustier and bustier. Till one day they can no longer walk

From a genetic study point of view that sort of "breeding" would be interesting to attempt in a SIMS environment however from what little I know about the software mechanic it currently would be impossible to get sizes beyond or larger than the largest character in that specific session. (or smaller for that matter)

I may be wrong but the game blends the traits of the two parents to fabricate the look of the offspring. I doubt the game is written sophisticated enough to factor in latent traits of bust size - say the size from the paternal grandmother.

So what you would expect is a simple average of the two or at worst a duplication of just the mother's traits because from the game's point of view the mother is the only one with boobs.

Worst case: Simple duplication of mother's size (in cup size, A, B, C...)
Gen 1 = B, Gen 2 = B, Gen 3 = B, etc.

Next worst case: Average of father's size [f] and mother's size [m]
Gen 1 [f]B+[m]D = C, Gen 2 [f]A+[m]C = B, Gen 3 [f]D+[m]B = C

This would mean that the game would have to store some manner of size contribution from the male line. I do not think that is done in the game.

The only thing that might occur in the game, and I do not know the mechanic, is if there was a "random" factor built in to create an offspring with the potential for a size larger than the mother regardless of any other contributions. Again, doubt this is done.

Proposing a test of the current SIMS game mechanic:
Someone who posts here could try and set up a scenario where the father from a very busty grandmother and a mother from a very flat line had a female offspring to see if the child ends up bustier than the mother. Thus showing that the game does track "genetic" contributions back along the father's line.

Photos of each "contributor" and the resulting offspring would be nice.

Note: There is also the possibility that the game has a built-in limiter of sorts that is constantly "averaging out" things like bust size or nose length or such so that no matter what, over the long run, no offspring in the game get to far off some base point in size. Essentially limiting radical mutations over successive generations. It would be interesting although very difficult to do, but after say 500 or 1000 generations all the busts in the game may end up the same size. say hovering around a C cup.

[NimrodClover]

Well with a bit of digging I did happen upon this video:


In it there is conversation and examples of the SIMS4 "genetics"

Especially around the 2:15 mark where they show a quick "twin" of a male character without any genetic contribution from a female character - this is an actual XX from a single XY character.

Why this is telling is twofold:

1) earlier they show the male's mother who has what appears to be a decent sized chest for a SIM and all genetic combinations with actual women appear to attempt to retain that size when dealing with a family line - and because she is larger she tends to average out even the contributions from flatter combinations when making a female offspring in subsequent generations.

2) as soon as alternate methods are employed, a clone, a twin sibling, a randomized non-family mix it appears that the game dumps the mother line and does one of two things.

a. if there is no mother (clone, twin sibling, etc.) the game appears to use just the male - therefor any woman based on them is rather flat.

b. if there is a female reference (sister, random mate, etc.) it appears to use just the female's shape to make female characters.

It just so happens that the base male is slightly stocky so even the female characters without a female reference do have a slight chest and that may be one of those built-in limiters of the game.

In other words, in the SIMS, if you are female you will have a minimum bustline.

Near the end they do show that particular aspects can be locked while letting the randomizer affect the remaining. It is telling to see how the categories are grouped. From that it is obvious that bust size was very low on the programer's awareness in terms of genetic consistency.

Conclusion:
SIMS4 essentially uses the "mother" if available to size any offspring.
The size will not necessarily be an average but it will never exceed the mother. This appears very set when generating family lines with the busts looking to be locked at the mother's size.
As soon as there is no mother in the calculation it will use the male which enviably results in a flatter female.

I find it odd that the game is so advanced when combining two genders and becomes so myopic when simply modifying from just the male line. It obviously knows that a male had a busty mother but seems to dump that knowledge when creating unconventional variants (no XX contribution).

This points to just one thing -
The female characters have a "bust" category of traits not maintained with male character's stats.

As long as there is a female in the mix that trait and following generations have a reference, such as with the family line. Drop that female reference size, like with a clone, and the game will either make a rather flat woman (minimum bust) or randomize a size irregardless of the paternal line's contributions. Both cool and disappointing at the same time.