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Unread 02-17-2019   #13
somnium
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by Blake Isaac Gordon View Post
Oh Snap, you feel comfortable sharing a link to your DA page?

I'd love to talk about BE fetish fiction and how well it does on Amazon. I've been checking out its presence, (honestly, I think there is more on SmashWords) and its impact on the Erotic subgenre...

But Amazon is a tough market, an author's book rankings can go from the low 40,000 to +1 Million in a few days.
Sure, you can read all my free stuff here. https://www.deviantart.com/praedatorius

I'd love to talk about BE fiction too. You're right about Amazon's fluctuating ranking system. I've gone all over the place in the last two months, but while my goal is to reach that #1 spot, I know that it has more to do with advertising and visibility than actual quality. I'll stick with quality and work my way out from there.

I've heard of Smashwords. Some of the fetish authors I met at SizeCon publish there, but I've never tried it. Can you tell me more about the kind of work you find there? Do you think it's more fetish-friendly?
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Unread 02-17-2019   #14
drwhoopass
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Re: Breast Friends

I liked how the story started but not where it went. Not a fan of overly big boobs and GASP shrinking But everyone is different and I like your writing style so no complaints here. I had bought Mona and whoever before.

And yeah I forgot to mention DA, that is how I found you in the first place
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Unread 02-19-2019   #15
Blake Isaac Gordon
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by somnium View Post
Sure, you can read all my free stuff here. https://www.deviantart.com/praedatorius

I'd love to talk about BE fiction too. You're right about Amazon's fluctuating ranking system. I've gone all over the place in the last two months, but while my goal is to reach that #1 spot, I know that it has more to do with advertising and visibility than actual quality.Not 100% sure that is accurate I'll stick with quality and work my way out from there.

I've heard of Smashwords. Some of the fetish authors I met at SizeCon publish there, but I've never tried it. The only real importance of Smashwords is they do not limit Taboo themes (they do discourage Sexual Slavery, and Rape) Can you tell me more about the kind of work you find there? Do you think it's more fetish-friendly?

Fun read: http://blog.smashwords.com/2017/09/s...s-erotica.html
Smashwords is an interesting place but most of the content is: Muscle Growth and BE flavored other fetish material. Kris Kreme has a ton of books there. I would lean more towards Amazon KPS (if I posted/published ANYTHING) for publishing just because of the name and payment policies. I've heard Amazon is NEVER late on your royalties.

As for the BE genre, I'm less than optimistic. Its a tough sell. Most women see it at best as comical but often as horribly insulting.

I tried to touch on it here:
https://www.deviantart.com/blakegord...TWBE-684391717

But the sad and frustrating aspect of BE is it does have a strong 'objectification' aspect that is really hard to unpack in a meaningful way. And one thing I have learned is women can be brutally judgemental when it comes to fiction and the portrayal of the female character. (Sadly I have no specific Twitter links, but I get the frustration if in a story ALL female characters are identified with a name and then how her rack looks, then yeah, the author needs to buckle down for the worst. Yet, how can a guy learn to write if is his 'mistakes' get made into a joke and becomes a 100+ thread of pure ridicule?)

But some BE content produces something like this:
(Note these are cropped screenshots from:
https://www.patreon.com/akemiexpansions/posts I'd recommend going over there and checking it out.)



Hasna's expressions are perfect and whimsical. This is her first interview and she is learning about what is BE and the props she is wearing. My favorite part is how she reacts to the information that the props can go bigger. She looks like she is having a ton of fun. This is one of my favorite BE scenes. I would want to write stories entirely built around something such as this.

The point (I guess) I'm trying to make... is writing BE strictly for the BE really worth the trouble and risk? I tend to agree with Clovis, its fun to write these stories but it's probably best to keep them 'free to all'. I would LOVE to make a minuscule profit on writing BE, but there is no way I'm doing a Patreon unless I get WAY better with my art.

It's a tough choice. I don't even see BE as a thing anymore except for the few dedicated producers. If I were to produce a novel I'd consciously tone down the BE as much as I could and pump up the other aspects such as Adventure, Romance, and Plot. And even then would it be Breast anything anymore?

I've rambled too much. I'm still uncertain if what I have said makes any sense other then being the bemoaning cries of a retired BE author.
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Unread 02-19-2019   #16
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Re: Breast Friends

BIG-

I posted in your other thread here but I wanted to post here too in hopes that you see it. You and Clovis are two of my favorite "classic" BE authors. I agree with you that in general it seems like the BE community is a lot less active/productive than it once was. BE stories are my favorite type of BE media, and it's becoming more and more difficult to find any quality content that is produced regularly.

Joryan J. Strebas posts a new story every week on Amazon. They are all fantastic quality and I make sure to buy any of them that are more focused on BE. There are a handful of authors on Patreon that I make sure to follow (somnium/praedatorius being one of them!). Kodos on DA/ToB is also one of my recent favorite authors. There are a handful of other sources I regularly check into for BE fiction, but overall it seems like quality BE fiction is really scarce these days.

I say all of this to hopefully encourage folks like you and Clovis to continue to produce content, IF your heart is still in it. I will happily pay a few bucks on Amazon for quality BE fiction. I would also be happy to throw a few bucks your way on Patreon every month. I would also love to see Mr. B continue to contribute to the community. The illustrated comic he did along with BustArtist a few years ago (Voluntary Response) is still one of my favorite pieces of BE content ever.

somnium - I purchased "Breast Friends" and really enjoyed it, but about half way into it I realized I have read it before. Have you posted it to your DA in the past, or to some other site where I may have purchased it?
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Unread 02-19-2019   #17
drwhoopass
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Re: Breast Friends

Thanks for the tip on Smashwords! It has a lot of stuff from amazon but a lot that isn't.
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Unread 02-19-2019   #18
somnium
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Re: Breast Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Isaac Gordon View Post
Smashwords is an interesting place but most of the content is: Muscle Growth and BE flavored other fetish material. Kris Kreme has a ton of books there. I would lean more towards Amazon KPS (if I posted/published ANYTHING) for publishing just because of the name and payment policies. I've heard Amazon is NEVER late on your royalties.

As for the BE genre, I'm less than optimistic. Its a tough sell. Most women see it at best as comical but often as horribly insulting.

I tried to touch on it here:
https://www.deviantart.com/blakegord...TWBE-684391717

But the sad and frustrating aspect of BE is it does have a strong 'objectification' aspect that is really hard to unpack in a meaningful way. And one thing I have learned is women can be brutally judgemental when it comes to fiction and the portrayal of the female character. (Sadly I have no specific Twitter links, but I get the frustration if in a story ALL female characters are identified with a name and then how her rack looks, then yeah, the author needs to buckle down for the worst. Yet, how can a guy learn to write if is his 'mistakes' get made into a joke and becomes a 100+ thread of pure ridicule?)

But some BE content produces something like this:
(Note these are cropped screenshots from:
https://www.patreon.com/akemiexpansions/posts I'd recommend going over there and checking it out.)



Hasna's expressions are perfect and whimsical. This is her first interview and she is learning about what is BE and the props she is wearing. My favorite part is how she reacts to the information that the props can go bigger. She looks like she is having a ton of fun. This is one of my favorite BE scenes. I would want to write stories entirely built around something such as this.

The point (I guess) I'm trying to make... is writing BE strictly for the BE really worth the trouble and risk? I tend to agree with Clovis, its fun to write these stories but it's probably best to keep them 'free to all'. I would LOVE to make a minuscule profit on writing BE, but there is no way I'm doing a Patreon unless I get WAY better with my art.

It's a tough choice. I don't even see BE as a thing anymore except for the few dedicated producers. If I were to produce a novel I'd consciously tone down the BE as much as I could and pump up the other aspects such as Adventure, Romance, and Plot. And even then would it be Breast anything anymore?

I've rambled too much. I'm still uncertain if what I have said makes any sense other then being the bemoaning cries of a retired BE author.
I don't worry about people finding fault with the concept of BE. There's nothing realistic about it, and if women growing large breasts offends some people, they'd be better off searching for enjoyment somewhere else. As I see it, from my audience on DA and from people I've met, there are plenty of men and women who love breast expansion, and I'm more concerned with entertaining them than appeasing potential detractors.

That said, it's certainly not an easy prospect. It depends upon finding an audience. I'm more concerned with the notion that people are too used to getting their content for free to buy it. The people who write free works are godsends, but that doesn't mean that someone with quality work can't sell it and hope for success.

I feel as if the "keep it free" ideal is more of a cover for creators who don't have confidence in their work. I don't mean they lack confidence in their BE story's quality, more like they lack confidence in the notion that what they're producing is valuable. "Why would anyone want to buy this? No one will pay money for smut." Of course these stories are valuable! People love this stuff and it's not just a cheap thrill. It's an important part of who they are. If you can produce quality art, then of course there will be a demand.

Now I'm rambling. XD I think that means we're on to something, Blake.
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Unread 03-06-2019   #19
JJStrebas
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Re: Breast Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Isaac Gordon View Post
As for the BE genre, I'm less than optimistic. Its a tough sell. Most women see it at best as comical but often as horribly insulting.

But the sad and frustrating aspect of BE is it does have a strong 'objectification' aspect that is really hard to unpack in a meaningful way. And one thing I have learned is women can be brutally judgemental when it comes to fiction and the portrayal of the female character.
The point (I guess) I'm trying to make... is writing BE strictly for the BE really worth the trouble and risk? I tend to agree with Clovis, its fun to write these stories but it's probably best to keep them 'free to all'. I would LOVE to make a minuscule profit on writing BE, but there is no way I'm doing a Patreon unless I get WAY better with my art.

It's a tough choice. I don't even see BE as a thing anymore except for the few dedicated producers. If I were to produce a novel I'd consciously tone down the BE as much as I could and pump up the other aspects such as Adventure, Romance, and Plot. And even then would it be Breast anything anymore?

I've rambled too much. I'm still uncertain if what I have said makes any sense other then being the bemoaning cries of a retired BE author.
I wouldn't worry about that too much. People are going to have their issues no matter what and there's not much you can do about it. The best thing to do is be up front with your blurbs/descriptions about how your story is framed so folks know what they are getting in to. I see a lot of cringey stuff that TO ME is something I wouldn't like or write or want to read that objectifies different groups, men and women or situations in general that are undesirable... but somebody somewhere likes it. And if I or anybody else doesn't like it... they don't have to buy it.

Especially Mind Control. Ha. Stay away from that on Amazon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calibretto View Post
Joryan J. Strebas posts a new story every week on Amazon. They are all fantastic quality and I make sure to buy any of them that are more focused on BE.
WOW! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwhoopass View Post
Thanks for the tip on Smashwords! It has a lot of stuff from amazon but a lot that isn't.
Smashwords allows stuff that Amazon won't like PI, and best i a l i t y, and dubcon. I don't write any of that anyway, so I feel like my work is better suited for Amazon. It seems if you dabble on the fringe Smash is the way to go.

Last edited by JJStrebas; 03-06-2019 at 07:08 AM.
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Unread 03-10-2019   #20
somnium
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by JJStrebas View Post
I wouldn't worry about that too much. People are going to have their issues no matter what and there's not much you can do about it. The best thing to do is be up front with your blurbs/descriptions about how your story is framed so folks know what they are getting in to. I see a lot of cringey stuff that TO ME is something I wouldn't like or write or want to read that objectifies different groups, men and women or situations in general that are undesirable... but somebody somewhere likes it. And if I or anybody else doesn't like it... they don't have to buy it.

Especially Mind Control. Ha. Stay away from that on Amazon.



WOW! Thanks!



Smashwords allows stuff that Amazon won't like PI, and best i a l i t y, and dubcon. I don't write any of that anyway, so I feel like my work is better suited for Amazon. It seems if you dabble on the fringe Smash is the way to go.
Thanks for the advice! I agree that everyone is going to find fault with something sometime. As long as there's an audience for a kink, then there's the possibility of successfully reaching that audience. It's just a matter of finding the right readers, and making the book as good as you can make it.

I should also check out Smashwords. It seems like the exact type of place where I'm going to find my audience. Besides, Kindle Unlimited doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble, so why not spread the book around?
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Unread 03-11-2019   #21
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by somnium View Post
Thanks for the advice! I agree that everyone is going to find fault with something sometime. As long as there's an audience for a kink, then there's the possibility of successfully reaching that audience. It's just a matter of finding the right readers, and making the book as good as you can make it.
Right, the key is to accurately describe it for what it is. You don't want someone to buy a book and feel like they were misled as far as what the content is, especially if dealing with kinks that are very... polarizing. That leads to lots of returns and bad reviews.

Also erotica and romance are two different markets. We might like a little romance in our erotica but a full fledged romance reader is usually looking for something totally different than what a typical process story has to offer. There are romance beats to hit and a certain length expected as well as a professional cover to consider. Most erotica is shorter and less polished and just designed to scratch an itch and move on. Maybe that was the audience BIG was referring to.

Quote:
Besides, Kindle Unlimited doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble, so why not spread the book around?
Kindle Unlimited favors longer titles, like 50K+

If you write a 5K word story and someone on KU reads it all the way through, that will pay you roughly $0.10.
As in ten pennies.

But it also helps with rankings and visibility of your books. I can't say what is better to do, because I am still new at this and by no means an expert. I've tried both Amazon and Smash and Amazon is by far my biggest market. They still control like 80-90% of the ebook market... or something like that.
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Unread 03-12-2019   #22
Blake Isaac Gordon
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by JJStrebas View Post
Right, the key is to accurately describe it for what it is. You don't want someone to buy a book and feel like they were misled as far as what the content is, especially if dealing with kinks that are very... polarizing...

...We might like a little romance in our erotica but a full-fledged romance reader is usually looking for something totally different than what a typical process story has to offer... Most erotica is shorter and less polished and just designed to scratch an itch and move on. Maybe that was the audience BIG was referring to.
This is EXACTLY the issue I am struggling with. I want to write more Romance-ish style books. I don't get much write satiation in writing a 7000
word crank scene.

But I am about certain if I put any 'expansion' theme in a 75K word novel full of adventure, heart, and boobs getting bigger most and I mean MOST will hit the eject button.

As a wise Mr. BillPratt once said,
Satisfaction in a job well done, mostly. You're not likely to get rich or famous writing Internet porn. Millions upon millions have tried and all we have to show for it is E.L. James.

And I guess I'm still trying to deal with this. It's never fun when Life's Lesson comes in suppository form.
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Unread 03-12-2019   #23
JJStrebas
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by Blake Isaac Gordon View Post
This is EXACTLY the issue I am struggling with. I want to write more Romance-ish style books. I don't get much write satiation in writing a 7000
word crank scene.

But I am about certain if I put any 'expansion' theme in a 75K word novel full of adventure, heart, and boobs getting bigger most and I mean MOST will hit the eject button.
Maybe so. There's also a genre known as erotic romance which kind of blurs the line, but from what I understand it isn't a very successful thing. People who like "real" romance don't like it because it goes overboard on the erotica and doesn't necessarily cover the beats and people who like erotica get bored of it and move on.

At first I was going to try to do About Marlin as one big 50-70k word novel, but I just wasn't confident enough that it would work or that I could really go about marketing it as romance, so I decided to go with my usual chapter format instead. I'm still kicking around the idea, with another different story, but I don't think it will grab a larger audience outside of people who already like BE.

I'm okay with that, but at the same time I can totally understand your desire to reach a different and larger audience by introducing "true" romance novel themes to a BE style story.
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Unread 03-19-2019   #24
somnium
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Re: Breast Friends

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Originally Posted by JJStrebas View Post
Maybe so. There's also a genre known as erotic romance which kind of blurs the line, but from what I understand it isn't a very successful thing. People who like "real" romance don't like it because it goes overboard on the erotica and doesn't necessarily cover the beats and people who like erotica get bored of it and move on.

At first I was going to try to do About Marlin as one big 50-70k word novel, but I just wasn't confident enough that it would work or that I could really go about marketing it as romance, so I decided to go with my usual chapter format instead. I'm still kicking around the idea, with another different story, but I don't think it will grab a larger audience outside of people who already like BE.

I'm okay with that, but at the same time I can totally understand your desire to reach a different and larger audience by introducing "true" romance novel themes to a BE style story.
I think in this case, you have to find the right balance. If you lean a little more towards the erotic side, people will put up with your story line, but a good story line is going to help people enjoy the erotica too. It's not enough, I feel, to just write out an erotica scene. Giving it more context will, in the long run, but a good thing by giving the sexy bits more of an emotional punch

As for longer works, the right approach might be releasing the story on a chapter by chapter basis. People will swallow the story chunk by chunk rather than taking a gamble on a normal-sized book. Later, you can package all tht chapters up and sell them in one volume.
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