My TG Sequence

[flango]

Originally Posted by genderhazard

Here is my days effort, Hmmm! would you be up for more of these?

I know it could use some work but its my first attempt at one of these.

Good one GH, but I dont like the way you've merged the two of the memes together. Plus, that smile on me is scary

[genderhazard]

Sorry to here you didn't like the Meme combo I though the pictures were close enough that I could get away with it the wedding dress at the end is admittedly tacked on.

I'm not all that satisfied how it turned out either ( my nature I see all the flaws) I would have liked 'your" hand to move through your hair but that is beyond my skill set.

Anyway, enjoyed playing with your images, let me know if you want me to unmerge the memes or remove it altogether. Either is fine it was more an exercise and as I said not completely satisfied with the results.

BTW The smile is a bit dopey, but it was just your frown turned upside down thinking was you made the wish now you were happy it was being granted.

[Very_Good_Karma]

Genderhazard- I'm actually really impressed with your animation. I'd considered mining [Hmmm!]'s other flango meme for images, but didn't see anything useful in it for the Bunny Meme; I really like the way you nabbed the surprised flango shot and used it for the looking-down-the-well animation. That shot helps the simple story hold together. Some other things I liked:

1. The simple coin-flip shot
2. Really liked the way you trimmed the magic blast to make it expand in the animation
3. Facial expressions in the magic-well-blast panel are better than I could have done
4. Creative use of filters at the beginning of the transformation
5. Really liked the bit with the expanding crosshatch pattern on the pants
6. That you tried to vary the frame timing appropriately

Some things I didn't like:

1. Mixing costumes in the animation is confusing
2. The animation's dimensions are WAY too huge. My GIF animator couldn't even preview it properly because it pushed the playback controls off the screen. If a web browser has to shrink the animation to display all of it, you might as well have just used a lower resolution and saved bandwidth.
3. The individual frame dimensions are also all over the place. That's going to mess up playback on occaison, and more importantly it means everything just defaults to the upper left corner. Don't do that, it's sloppy.
4. There are lots of seemingly pointless frames in the animation- blank ones that display for zero time, duplicates of previous frames, or frames who's differences seem pointless- like frames for tiny wrinkles appearing in clothing. You ought to clean those out.

More importantly, though, seeing your animation has given me a lot of new ideas- I'm really appreciating your input on this project. What programs are you using to edit the images and compose the animations?


Hmmm!- Thanks so much for the new panel! It's a terrific scan even if it's not the same size as the old one. I'm still deciding how best to use it; I've already thrown out several test animations for the well so I'll probably just start over using the new panel. Now, though, I've got the problem of trying to fit the old expressions into the new panel- looks like I'll need to get really proficient with the resampler. I've already edited the old magic blast into the frame, (see below) and expanded it to fill the empty space. It took me forever but I'm loathe to ask you to change the drawing again and receive a new scan at a new size. It was not easy imitating your vibrant style using a mouse and the airbrush tool.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to collaborate with you and other artists on animations in the future. If you'd know ahead of time the sequence was going to be animated, how would you have drawn the changing facial expressions, transformation stages, etc, differently? Can you draw on paper, scan, then change the drawing, then scan again? Or does that mess up the paper? How exactly did you make the new panel? Did you have to draw over the original sequence? If I asked you to adjust one of the images from your scans on the computer, without resizing it, could you do it?

Sorry to interrogate; thanks in advance for any answers you can give.

[genderhazard]

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

Genderhazard- I'm actually really impressed with your animation.

Thank you, the more I look at it the less I like it.

Coin toss. Ideally I would have preferred a straight side view of the coin it would have made a better flipping motion like the lines on an asterisk.

The pan in the wedding dress is to rough and as you said a bit confusing.

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

3. Facial expressions in the magic-well-blast panel are better than I could have done
4. Creative use of filters at the beginning of the transformation
5. Really liked the bit with the expanding crosshatch pattern on the pants

Facial expression was very easy I just used the clone tool to reposition the pupil and then painted the old location white.

The "Filters" are called "effects" in my program (Corel Paint shop pro X).- they now have released XI. very easy to do.

Expanding cross hatch is also very easy. I work backward start with Hmmm's original drawing save as a new image and paint white a portion of the hatch. save, then save as and repeat. Then when you go to put them in the animator put least hatch first. So that when it plays more hatch appears.

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

Some things I didn't like:

2. The animation's dimensions are WAY too huge. My GIF animator couldn't even preview it properly because it pushed the playback controls off the screen. If a web browser has to shrink the animation to display all of it, you might as well have just used a lower resolution and saved bandwidth.

I went to Flango's DA page and down loaded HMMM! art. I then cropped the images. So they were the same as on the original artwork.

You had said

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

please, do not crop, resize, resample, or convert the image to a lossy format.

So I left everything original size. (partly with the though they could be shared and partly because I'm lazy and didn't know it would be problematic. If this had been planned as a animation rather than a comic the originals size could have been standardized. I'm thinking index sized. This should prevent future endeavors from being as sloppy. the Different sizes were actually the reason for those blank ones displayed for zero time. They cover the odd sizes so you don't have the guys legs hanging under the the next portion of the sequence.

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

4. There are lots of seemingly pointless frames in the animation frames who's differences seem pointless- like frames for tiny wrinkles appearing in clothing. You ought to clean those out.

I wasn't satisfied with that either. The illusion I was going for was running fingers through the hair while breasts expanded. I had hoped that the wrinkles would give the illusion that the cloth was being pushed away from the body. Sadly did not pull that one off.

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

More importantly, though, seeing your animation has given me a lot of new ideas- I'm really appreciating your input on this project. What programs are you using to edit the images and compose the animations?

I'm glad this sparked some ideas. I would really hope that a group of us members could join together and lend our strenght(s) no mater what they may be to have some innovative Process TGing. I am always willing to pitch in.

So for programs I used Corel Paint Shop pro X the tools I used were Clone, Paint, Distortion Effects , & crop. The Animator I used was the free Microsoft GIF animator.

One thing I don't like about the program is the work area is so small, I like bigger windows to work in.

Thanks to Flango for letting us play with his commission and to Hmmm! for creating such wonderful drawings that told the story. (I really admire your detail on the well.

[Very_Good_Karma]

Genderhazard- Actually, I'd figured out how you'd done those things I liked as soon as I saw them- I was impressed because you'd thought of them to begin with. Like the facial expression in the 3rd panel- I would have tried to draw something new, but you came up with useful variations using what was there.

I'm sorry if there's still some confusion over the file management suggestions I gave- let me explain again more carefully:

Media files tend to get really big, and so the various formats for them- mp3, gif, avi, etc.- utilize compression algorithms when saving in order to produce the smallest file possible. These formats can be divided into two groups: lossy and lossless. Lossy formats approximate the data they're storing in order to squeeze even more information into each byte- sort of like cliff's notes for the media in question. Lossless formats, however, stick to algorithms that preserve every last bit of data- more like those miniature books that you need a magnifying glass to read.

Lossy formats aren't bad- mp3s are lossy, and they're universally awesome- but when you want to work with and edit media, the little bits they leave out pile up, gradually resulting in unusably low quality data. That's why you should use lossless formats for editing, and then convert to lossy when you're ready for distribution. I asked that people not convert to lossy formats because I wanted whatever they made to preserve quality until *I* could edit it.

The same reasons are behind resizing/resampling and using PNG rather than GIF: Every time you resize an image, it gets a little fuzzier. If you shrink it down, and then I shrink it up, I'm not going to get the same quality image you started with. GIF doesn't lose data to compression, but since it's limited to 256 colors you'll often have to lower the quality of an image in order to convert. Plus, lots of 'fuzzy' operations- like using an airbrush or resampling- will increase the color depth of a file, pushing your 256 color GIF over the limit; which means that you'll have to keep color dropping to keep saving. And decreasing color depth is another operation that 'approximates'.

So, you obviously have to decrease color depth once to make the animated GIF- keep it to once, then. You can resize/resample if you need to shrink an image down to managable dimensions- but as much as possible work with your original image first, then resize/resample when finished to get the desired dimensions.

"'Cropping" was just asking you not to cut off part of the image that I might need, 'cause it's a pain to paste it back in.

Oh- I should be clearer about this- I'm using Paintshop Pro 4.0, and in that program 'resizing' and 'resampling' both shrink or stretch an image to fit new dimensions, but they use completely different algorithms. I never actually use the 'resize' function, (it's awful) so I wasn't sure what to call it when asking people not to do it. I'm sorry if using both terms just further added to the confusion.

I've been holding back on showing what I've got so far with my own animation, but now that you've put your stuff out there, I guess I better put something up too. I'm gonna stop reworking the segments of my animation and put together a temporary full version from what I've got so far. I'll put it up here soon.

[hmmm!]

Originally Posted by genderhazard

Hmmm! would you be up for more of these?

What do ya have in mind, Hazard?

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

Hmmm!- Thanks so much for the new panel! It's a terrific scan even if it's not the same size as the old one. I've already edited the old magic blast into the frame, (see below) and expanded it to fill the empty space. It took me forever but I'm loathe to ask you to change the drawing again and receive a new scan at a new size.

You're welcome for the new panel. And, Bah, don't be loathe about asking me anything. What do you need me to change and what size should I make it?

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

I'm trying to figure out the best way to collaborate with you and other artists on animations in the future. If you'd know ahead of time the sequence was going to be animated, how would you have drawn the changing facial expressions, transformation stages, etc, differently? Can you draw on paper, scan, then change the drawing, then scan again? Or does that mess up the paper? How exactly did you make the new panel? Did you have to draw over the original sequence? If I asked you to adjust one of the images from your scans on the computer, without resizing it, could you do it?

Sorry to interrogate; thanks in advance for any answers you can give.

I'm not entirely sure how I'd have gone about it if I knew it was for an animation.. more subtle changes to fill the gaps, I imagine. I'd try to make sure they were all the same size too, I suppose. The particular paper I used for this sequence is very eraser friendly so drawing/scanning/editing/scanning again would actually work for a while before the paper would give up. Also, the paper is thin enough to where I can see through it well enough to trace, which is how I redid that panel. And yeah, I think I could adjust images and rescan them without messing the size up.

Also, here is that establishing shot you asked for. Let me know if that's something like what you wanted. And I think the size might be more spot on with the original scans. Let me know if I'm heinously wrong.

[Very_Good_Karma]

[Hmmm!]- Excellent new panel, thank you so much. I slapped it in to my screen test (below) even though it's out of order.You don't need to actually add panel borders for these insertions; I'm putting them in with the computer and it wastes the edges of your drawing.

I've got a new request: Draw some clouds, from below, suitable to appear in the sky in the second panel. You don't need to redraw the inside of the well, because I'm going to paste the clouds in. It's better if they're strung out to about twice the width of the well; I'd like to try and animate them drifting overhead so that that shot isn't so lifeless. The only practical size consideration is that the line weights match.

Genderhazard- Remember your morphing idea that I thought wouldn't work after trying it? Well, apparently someone has managed to do it. Check the first file linked in this thread.

I don't know how much work that took the artist to pull off, but if you're interested in attempting to succeed where I failed you can get WinMorph for free at DebugMode.

Finally, here's an assortment of my scraps taped together into the first half of the sequence. Some of this is really rough, and a lot of the frames I've already abandoned. Also, it cuts off before the end.

Hopefully you people will get some ideas from this and maybe perhaps give some of them to me. Constructive criticism greatly appreciated.

[genderhazard]

Originally Posted by hmmm!

What do ya have in mind, Hazard?

Nothing specific, There are several simple story's that could be done. As I wrote before, I think a team approach drawing on individual strenghts would achieve the greatest results.

So I suppose the first question is what do you like to draw. For example I really REALLY like the stone work on the well. If that is something you enjoy than stories could be tailored to things you like to draw. such as a jeckle/hyde transformation in a midevil castle. If you don't it could be a jeckle/hyde transformation in a modern laboratory.

Originally Posted by hmmm!

I'm not entirely sure how I'd have gone about it if I knew it was for an animation.. more subtle changes to fill the gaps, I imagine. I'd try to make sure they were all the same size too, I suppose. The particular paper I used for this sequence is very eraser friendly so drawing/scanning/editing/scanning again would actually work for a while before the paper would give up. Also, the paper is thin enough to where I can see through it well enough to trace, which is how I redid that panel. And yeah, I think I could adjust images and rescan them without messing the size up.

I suppose the methodology depends on what tools you have at your disposal.
I assume you have a photoshop like program, which allows you to worker on layers. So you could draw the head with out a face scan it in to the computer, overlay a new sheet over your original drawing and only draw facial expressions without having to redraw the entire head.

You could draw cycles basicly a loop of action like a walk that continue forever with a ony a few drawings. (think more Scooby-doo than Tom and Jerry)

[flango]

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

[Hmmm!]- Excellent new panel, thank you so much. I slapped it in to my screen test (below) even though it's out of order.You don't need to actually add panel borders for these insertions; I'm putting them in with the computer and it wastes the edges of your drawing.

I've got a new request: Draw some clouds, from below, suitable to appear in the sky in the second panel. You don't need to redraw the inside of the well, because I'm going to paste the clouds in. It's better if they're strung out to about twice the width of the well; I'd like to try and animate them drifting overhead so that that shot isn't so lifeless. The only practical size consideration is that the line weights match.

Genderhazard- Remember your morphing idea that I thought wouldn't work after trying it? Well, apparently someone has managed to do it. Check the first file linked in this thread.

I don't know how much work that took the artist to pull off, but if you're interested in attempting to succeed where I failed you can get WinMorph for free at DebugMode.

Finally, here's an assortment of my scraps taped together into the first half of the sequence. Some of this is really rough, and a lot of the frames I've already abandoned. Also, it cuts off before the end.

Hopefully you people will get some ideas from this and maybe perhaps give some of them to me. Constructive criticism greatly appreciated.

Thats great Karma, but you missed out part of the sequence where Im turning into a girl

[Very_Good_Karma]

Originally Posted by flango

Thats great Karma, but you missed out part of the sequence where Im turning into a girl

Well, like I said...

Originally Posted by Very Good Karma

...here's an assortment of my scraps taped together into the first half of the sequence. Some of this is really rough, and a lot of the frames I've already abandoned. Also, it cuts off before the end.

It was a screen test, that's all. I was hoping to get some feedback on things like my attempts to add color, lighting effects, animation smoothness, etc. It does have 'Work In Progress' rather prominently displayed at the end, too.

[genderhazard]

Originally Posted by Very_Good_Karma

I was hoping to get some feedback on things like my attempts to add color, lighting effects, animation smoothness, etc.

I like the use of colors. One of the things I thought might be interesting is to have the circle in the lighting effect represent the coin. Have it rise from the well, then have the power flash. Then perhaps a camera shake. (to represent the rumble of power coming from the well.)


I also like the bubbles rising and changing color but since they don't change shape the effect looks off.

All in all a nice work in progress. I'm also sending you a PM on another matter.

[hmmm!]

I don't have much time here so I'll get back to you guys in a while but I had a spot of time so I went ahead and drew some random clouds. I thought you might be able to just pick and choose which ones you'd like to use out of the bunch, if any. Is something like this kind of what you wanted, Karma?

And on the final bunny shot you use, the outfit wasn't finished putting itself together yet in the original sequence so I went and finished it up a bit. If you want to use it, there it is.

And I'm pleasantly pleased with how it seems to be coming along. A wonderful job, you've done.