TF Romance

[DragonMasterX]

Cubicle nerds having wet dreams about hot co-workers. O:

Guess I had it easy in comparison. XP

[glueman]

BlackshirtBoy's "Love on the Plains" is pretty fantastic.

http://blackshirtboy.com/i.php?issue=8

[jolem]

It's alright I suppose, even though I didn't read it. >_>

Originally Posted by DragonMasterX

Cubicle nerds having wet dreams about hot co-workers. O:

Guess I had it easy in comparison. XP

Not really since the guy I'm thinking about has to worry if he'll turn into a zombie or not if he actually does it with her. Though I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of guys that have that kind of romance but all it takes is for them is to try to go for it. ^^;

[DragonMasterX]

True. Metamorph or not, demonic hellspawn or not, if they were human before a transformation, the inhuman looks are just looks.

Some creatures in specific pose a danger to their normal mate, if the transformation can be transmitted. I suppose there's enough werewolf porn in the internet to lead people to reconsider banging one, lest they really want to be a werewolf themselves.

Now, if there's no danger of transmitting anything, I'd say it's pretty much about looks, but I also started considering the whole "superhuman" detail about creatures like my metamorphs. Someone like Stinger, with enough strength to bench-press an 18-wheeler, might intimidate a male; not to mention being physically close to a scorpion poses the danger of being stung.

You'd have to be willing to look past looks and transhumanistic features, or just straight out crazy (or turned on), to consider romance with them.

But that's from the side of the one I continue to refer as the "vanilla human". Imagine the transformed people's confidence issues (unless they take what they want, romance be damned) when they consider they want to begin a relationship with a vanilla human. That's a whole new level of adjusting one's self to the situation. XP

[Crash Ichimonji]

The Xeno-philia threads on /d/ make me wonder about that in a way too, DragonMaster. Who in their right mind would want to bang a XENOMORPH or any other inhuman monstrosity that ordinarily is unkind to all but their own species?? I can't help but wonder, though, if their human mind remained the same intellectually and emotionally, I suppose some semblance of a relationship can still blossom.

But for all the vicious aliens in those threads, there's a nearly identical amount of humanoids that are much more sexually appealing. So it balances out.

Imagine a 'Leave It to Beaver'-esque show where the females of the family were all victims of a TF virus or curse and still tried to live an otherwise normal life in and out of the home? THAT'S something I could enjoy in comic form.

[DragonMasterX]

I'm not talking about the Alien Xenomorphs, though it's a good question to ponder. It'd be hard to build inter-racial romance about monsters who are pre-programmed to impregnate and subsequently kill other species.

[jolem]

Originally Posted by Crash Ichimonji

The Xeno-philia threads on /d/ make me wonder about that in a way too, DragonMaster. Who in their right mind would want to bang a XENOMORPH or any other inhuman monstrosity that ordinarily is unkind to all but their own species?? I can't help but wonder, though, if their human mind remained the same intellectually and emotionally, I suppose some semblance of a relationship can still blossom.

But for all the vicious aliens in those threads, there's a nearly identical amount of humanoids that are much more sexually appealing. So it balances out.

Imagine a 'Leave It to Beaver'-esque show where the females of the family were all victims of a TF virus or curse and still tried to live an otherwise normal life in and out of the home? THAT'S something I could enjoy in comic form.

You and me both, I'm pretty sure that I did find a couple of comics like that, but not as the girls being the main characters and I only saw one rich person who is pulling that off without the romance with her commissions.

Originally Posted by DragonMasterX

True. Metamorph or not, demonic hellspawn or not, if they were human before a transformation, the inhuman looks are just looks.

Some creatures in specific pose a danger to their normal mate, if the transformation can be transmitted. I suppose there's enough werewolf porn in the internet to lead people to reconsider banging one, lest they really want to be a werewolf themselves.

Now, if there's no danger of transmitting anything, I'd say it's pretty much about looks, but I also started considering the whole "superhuman" detail about creatures like my metamorphs. Someone like Stinger, with enough strength to bench-press an 18-wheeler, might intimidate a male; not to mention being physically close to a scorpion poses the danger of being stung.

You'd have to be willing to look past looks and transhumanistic features, or just straight out crazy (or turned on), to consider romance with them.

But that's from the side of the one I continue to refer as the "vanilla human". Imagine the transformed people's confidence issues (unless they take what they want, romance be damned) when they consider they want to begin a relationship with a vanilla human. That's a whole new level of adjusting one's self to the situation. XP

That's pretty much my whole stance on my take over of this thread and how I feel about anthro characters in general. I used to have a problem with anthro characters being with humans a long time ago, but now I'm okay with it. Because in the end they are still people through and through and if you can't look past their bodies than you may not be the kind of person who looks at people for who they are. Anyway, it's also the reason why I like to make this kind of romance and find any stories that resembles that because most of the time when a victim, mostly girls, who turned into an anthropomorphic creature they worry about how they have turned into a monster when in reality they really haven't. Because the way I see it, just because you lost half of your humanity or don't look like a complete human anymore, doesn't mean you're no longer human. As long as you're still yourself, you're just as a human being as anyone else.

Of course going any deeper than that is when things get more complicated. Hopefully everyone knows the difference between a talking animal and a person who just have animal like features. Basically if you got turned completely into a cat but can still talk, you're essentially just an animal that can talk, but if you turn half way into a cat and you still have your human shape, then you're still a human being, who just happen to have cat features. That means you're still a human being regardless of what others think of you. This is one of things that I really want to address in this kind of romance where a girl who ended up turning into a morph and the guy is trying to get her (and possibly others) to see that she is not only still herself, but still a human being despite her looks being taken away from her.

Where the line is drawn between human and animal is where the complication lies and I've already made my stance on where that line is made on the last paragraph. However to make things even more complicated is that there are two type of categories of anthro characters, anthros who are simply another race of people and anthros who really identify themselves as animals and that is debated nonstop. I really want to get into more detail about this but I would rather explain that in comic form, but to summarize what I wanted to say about this here are the key points:
My Main True Point>Only the creator of these anthropomorphic characters have final say on whether these are people in the similar vein as aliens or just uplifted animals or animals that can talk.
>You cannot argue on what type the anthro characters are in for other people's characters because no matter how much you and your opponent argue you can never be sure who is right. Example you can't argue whether Mickey Mouse and his friends are animals or not if the one who made them has not made his stance on that clear.
>You cannot force other people's anthro characters to fit into your view of anthros because no matter what you say, the one who made them always have the final word on what they are in their world.
>If the anthropomorphic characters stance on whether they're people or animals is debatable: then it's debatable until their story is over and their creator made their decision or will leave it up to be just debatable. However there is no right or wrong answer in that kind of universe if the creator chose the latter.

These are the points that I have find out in the eternal debate about whether anthro characters are people or not and I have made my stance on that very clear, especially on those who turned into these type of characters. Just like you said DragonMaster, if they were humans before they change into morphic characters then their inhuman looks purely just physical traits and nothing more. Writing of that, let me explain my stance a little further on transformed humans. In terms of physical looks, if someone was turned into an anthro being, and if they and someone else says that they have become an animal or monster my reply be: No, they are not monsters nor are they animals and they never will be until they ended up getting down on all fours or end up looking EXACTLY like the creature they supposedly resemble, then they are still people through and through and I refuse to call them otherwise. Now if someone were to talk about who they are in the inside after their transformation I will say this: There are plenty of people who are still humans that make plenty of animal noises and behavior without resembling that animal or creature, sure the transformed may or may not have a kickstart on the animal like behavior but that does not make them any less humans than the other humans who ALSO adopted that behavior (and diets) as part of themselves. But as long as that stuff doesn't stop them from being who they are as people then it doesn't change the fact that they are still human beings, they just look a little different now. Besides there are plenty of real monsters in this world that look exactly like a "normal" human being.

My true goal in the pursuit of this romance is to show everyone (in-universe and ours) including the victim is to show them that when transformed they have never lost all of their humanity or even lost it in the first place. It's to help remind them who they were before the change and that they are still exactly the same person, the same human being who is growing and changing with the world as they were before this whole thing. The transformation made them a bit more unique and possibly gave them super powers and in the end they are still themselves before the change. It's to bring the victims out of their depressed bunks and regain their confidence to be themselves.



This would've been a good idea to stop my post here, but I think I have to describe why I don't want the guy to transform with their lover or be transformed by their lover when I sort of hijacked this thread. The point of the guy not changing as well is to show that the girl's lover still loves her for who she is and accepts her current form, kinda like that Lizzy TF comic by lonewarrior where a bride ended up turning into a giant lizard lady and even though the TMNT managed to shrink her back down to her real size and they couldn't change her back from an anthro lizard, her soon-to-be husband still love her despite that she looks like a large lizard person because he loves her for who she is and not what she is. I believe one of the key points of love is accepting the differences between the two parties and focus on the same traits both of them have to work together as well as using their differences to make their lives all the more fulfilling. I feel like having the guy transform with her undermines this kind of love and makes the whole thing feel superficial or shoehorned as if their universe are saying, "having the two of them be different is too weird, so let's make them both the same so it's alright." It's basically like another way of saying that you still have to change yourself drastically to be the same as your lover (or please her and the audience) so you can truly love each other otherwise your differences will make you both miserable. To simply put as a friend of mine has been saying for trying, and I'm paraphrasing: "It's like a white guy bringing a black girl he's been dating for months to his parents and she changes herself to be white just so she can please her boyfriend's racist parents." (it's also why I have such an unenthusiastic response to the latest entry because it looks like the girl changes to be like her anthro horse boyfriend, which makes them both the same and not different) That's not exactly accepting someone who's different unconditionally isn't it. But that's not the true reason why I don't want the guy to change...

So let's ask this: do I want the girl to be in her transformed state while her boyfriend remains the same (and possibly never back)?
Well as a preference yes, but only if she's okay with her new form, but if she isn't, then it's probably best she does get her original body back, nothing beats having their original form.
Doesn't that contradict with what I want?
Yes it does, but I hate unhappy characters more. Just because someone changes themselves to make someone they love be happy, but in essence making themselves miserable, it doesn't feel like a good ending, it feels like a forceful ending. Almost no different than the brainwashed endings.
Why is it that you want both lovers to have radically different forms and not be the same either way?
Because as I said before, it feels like it undermines the love but it doesn't mean I hate it or I like my preferences to get in the way of the characters' happiness.
Then what are you looking for?
What I'm really looking for is the girl's transformation into an anthro is supposed to make her and her lover love each other more. In essence the change enrich or better their love lives and it shows that the guy is wiling to love her no matter what form she takes even if she becomes a half animal. I want the guy to care for her and be willing to look past the girl's transformed state and still call her his lover. If they happened to make out while she looks like an anthro, then it's a big plus for me, but basically I want them to get closer together during their journey of trying to change her back to normal or another form of declaration of love. I also really want her boyfriend to show her that she has never changed into anything else in his eyes and she's still the person he truly loves, even if she can never change back. As long as she still mostly herself that's all that matters.

[DragonMasterX]

Dude, just say boobs.

On a less silly note, I understand what you're saying, but the thought is self-contained. Sometimes, racism and sensitivities aren't simply contained to families or small groups of people who you can just eyeball and defeat with the classic: "You can't decide who I love." line that romance likes use. Sometimes, these perceptional (superficial or otherwise) differences extend to a large part of the population of the world you live in. While emotionally-wise, you and anybody would feel owed the right to love for the sake of loving, with no conditions (such as being too physically turned on by the partner), you have to accept that the vast majority of people are conditioned to believe such things as anthros or metamorphs to be something out of fiction or fantasy.

Then suddenly one pops up in front in front of you, your son taking her by the paw/claw/tentacle/etc to introduce her to you, both making impressive displays of loyalty and unlimited devotion that you can't help feel but this is the perfect match. You're not only dealing with the issue of your child bringing home his beloved, presumably his soul mate, but you're also adjusting your eyes to something you've never seen before. Your knowledge on a fellow human being of a different race hinges on how much you tolerate different cultural standards and/or skin tone. This is an entirely new sub-species of the human genome you're beholding, whether it's been a genetic or magical miracle. There is just no way to process both the emotional achievement of your child and your discovery of an anthro and not feel conflicted by your own thoughts. You haven't been prepared for it, you only have limited knowledge based on imagined what-ifs to build up your opinion. And it is true, your boy and this girl's love might be pure in all of its forms, but how long have they been at it? If they're at this junction, probably more than enough to have gone through the process I mentioned above to adjust to each other, and themselves, over this situation. You simply have not been prepared to deal with this.

So now that there's a bit of speculated context, let's return to the romantic couple. You have your girl next to you, learned to accept her. Your family's upset about her appearance, and even if you find it unfair, you have to understand they haven't had the time that you HAVE had to get to know this aspect of (super)nature in human beings. Given the time, they would coddle her and make her a part of the family just as you, because you're adamant and headstrong to the point of facing an important fear and deciding to do your best with your loved one to be accepted. It can go any way, but let's assume the family accepts you and your mate.

What of the world? Fuck it, no government or Goddarn planet will tell me what to feel. But to live in the world that you and your girl share with the rest of mankind, there needs to be acceptance from anybody you share the same place with, that includes streets, buildings, public transport, any place you can think of. The issue isn't isolated to a household or the perception of a small group of people anymore, unless you want your girl to hide for the rest of her life; this issue isn't the one resolved by showing her off and expecting everyone to understand your point of view like your kind family reluctantly (at first) did, these are billions of suddenly inflamed opinions we're talking about; like it or not, it would have to be a perfect world for it to not go with the prejudice of a creature like this being in a relationship with a human being. It's out of the norm, and your crowd isn't limited to your house, let alone your city or government anymore. It's the world

This is why, in my opinion, the plot will sometimes demand the guy to make the transhumanistic choice: "I can't bear you being against the world. I'll follow you down the same road if I have to." and change themselves to share the same prejudice. It is shallow, you say, and I get where you're coming from, but the world would not care. Your loved ones would understand your choice, they already understand your love is true.

The world doesn't understand that. It isn't about a specific mindset, or a specific culture, or even an consolidated view that everything transhumanistic must be persecuted; there simply has not been any previous conditioning to let the world know: "It's okay. Her stinger won't accidentally pierce your eyeball, just don't stroke your face against it.", you're dealing with the same problem you had with your family at the start, except this time its gravity is multiplied by literally millions.

Love CAN triumph all, we've been taught that in many tales. But love isn't always perceived the same way by everybody.

Alternatively, just say boobs.

[jolem]

That family example I was referring to from my friend's comment was referring to the world aka mainstream audience at large, specifically on his stance on trying to use his ideas to promote romance between humans and anthros in mainstream media (TV, comics, video games). Anyway that's why I believe it's just as important for to fight the world for change and peace than to make the transhumanistic choice of changing as well, however it's also something that both parties need to agree on when facing the world together. It took decades (or nearly a century) for us to accept our own races when we started mingling with each other in the same land, I wouldn't expect the whole world to be to totally fine with a fine human romantically going out with a former full human in a few short years, I'm seeing about less than 2 decades at best, before the whole thing just becomes "meh" to them.

I understand what you're saying as well, it is much more romantic and a show of love for the guy to change too so his lover won't be alone in her new form because it shows dedication and sacrifice while refusing to change is much more selfish. But I don't think it's a good way to deal with this and feels more like caving into peer pressure (like in "There She Is") or something like that. However as I said before it has to be a decision that the couple both has to be willing to face the world together like that (non-change option), and they must have strong hearts and determination to weather this fight. But if one of them breaks it then that choice I'm pushing really does become a "is it worth it?" question. However I think this option really is worth it despite how dangerous it could be it really just depends on the people who make it and to see if they could follow that path without making that (last, other mistakes can made like any other choice) fatal wrong turn that would ruin their lives. That path also depends on the world they live in as well.

[DragonMasterX]

Yes of course. This hypothesis of mine largely depends on the world the characters live in.

In my Codename: Stinger's universe case, I think it's starting to edge into X-men territory. Anti- sentiments are there, but the public's mixed opinions makes it awkward-to-dangerous for metamorphs to just prance around. This is mainly because two of them just trampled over a major city at gigantic size and that really doesn't win a lot of points. So in that case, a human starting a relationship with a metamorph is risky.

Romance and drama go hand-by-hand if you want entertainment though; I think the world needs to hate for there to be good drama, and therefore build a good romance that imparts a lesson of tolerance at the same time. XP That's just me though.

[jolem]

So that's what's happening in this world.

I believe that too, which is why I said that the lovers had to fight the world's preconceptions. However it takes a delicate approach to make sure that the side against it isn't simply a strawman (For anyone else reading it, it's a character who opposes the author's views with very weak opinions and does not bother to defend their points as the author, or the character who shares the same views as the author, verbally and/or physically defeats them; therefore making the opposing side look stupid). In your world Dragon, the people against do have a point because of the power of the metamorphs just like how Gillpanda's manga has humans afraid of anthros because of their abilities as well, which is a good point and it is getting to be like X-Men after your Thunderstruck issue. I wonder how you'll actually handle it though.

[DragonMasterX]

Hell, jolem, I wonder about that myself.