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Unread 08-26-2016   #61
Amahain
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

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Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
I don't think we should be so quick to condemn Primal. They did, afterall, state that it would take a some time for our feedback to be integrated into newer videos.

I will agree that the screaming and growling needs to be toned down considerably, and perhaps the videos shortened as a result. But Primal is fairly new on the TF scene. Just as with Missa, the hope is that their props and techniques will improve with time.

We should continue to give constructive feedback, and not instantly despair or make assumptions that the producer is not listening. Primal has excellent potential and solid actresses. The sweat, the moaning, the writhing, the writing; all of that is great. Primal simply needs to work on some delivery aspects, the length of videos, and improving their props.

I think patience is in order.
I just want to make it clear, despite my issues with some aspects of Primal's videos, I agree with this sentiment. I've bought these videos in the past and I probably will buy more in the future. As Anakhi said, Missa's videos improved with time as well, and I'm sure we'll see the same here.
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Unread 08-26-2016   #62
PrimalFetish
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

We appreciate the feedback, both positive and negative. (Sorry I wasn't able to post the link on the forum myself, but we just finished the last stage of our moving process. Been a bit busy. Thanks for handling that, Anahki!) One of the primary goals behind this video was to gauge whether or not it is worth producing transformation videos with no sexual acts. It impacts what models we can hire, and by extension, when we are able to shoot them.

As I had mentioned a while back in this forum, most of what you're seeing in our store at the moment was shot before we got much feedback. Our special effects makeup artist was not able to be on set for a long time, so new transformation content hasn't been shot in quite a while. We also have had some trouble solidifying a quality special effects editor who actually completed projects, and that's been gumming up the works. Not to make excuses, but I just wanted to let you know that this is why things that were shot before feedback are only coming out now. Additionally, please keep in mind that not every video can incorporate every feature, and every girl is going to get into character a little differently.

I totally sympathize on the screaming. Imagine my surprise when I plugged in my headphones to edit with the volume turned up! lol Hello tinnitus. But I don't think it can be argued that Samantha put a lot of energy into her role, and she genuinely enjoyed the opportunity for a unique performance. Future models will be advised not to scream.


Now, since it's come up so much in public and private feedback, I want to address the messy subject of time and price. There's a lot that it's simply not possible to know unless you've done it, so I totally get why misconceptions abound. Transformation videos are some of the most costly and labor intensive clips to produce. That's largely why so few people produce it. People involved include talent, makeup artist, editor, special effects editor, camera operator, and often a production assistant to keep the shoot on pace. Because of the details and redundancy involved in conveying transformation, shoots can take a good portion of the day. Most models earn their checks on a day rate, not a per clip rate. So if we're only shooting one clip in a day as opposed to, say, 3 clips, that essentially triples the cost of talent for that one clip. Thus anything that speeds up the process is actually saving $. Special effects editors have a very specialized skill set to do those effects, and it can take a long time to complete. And of course, the rest of the staff doesn't work for free, though we often double or triple up on roles to save on cost. When you consider all of this, then add on costs for special effects makeup products, clothing to be destroyed, etc. the cost gets up there. But who would pay $29.99 for a 7 minute clip? Certainly not enough people to compensate for all of the effort and expense that went into it. So if we can add a little length to the time by showing things like the girl's body and her reactions to the experience, pushing 7 minutes to maybe 9 or 10 at a price of roughly $1 a minute, odds of selling go up. Then there's clips4sale's 40%, as goes for all ~90,000 studios on their site. So if a clip sells for $10, we get $6 out of that. If 100 people buy that, that's $600. That's simply not enough to cover production costs. But we don't want to just hike up the price and charge $5 a minute. So we try to add more content to the clip where reasonable to increase the value for both us and the consumer. This is why a 19 minute clip can come out to $19.99. We can't afford to charge any less. We have clips that haven't broken even, but you never know if that'll be the case until it happens. Though we may want to shoot new content that incorporates all of your suggestions, it's neither fiscally possible at the present time nor cost effective given the rate of return. We keep striving to change that, but we're only human. As for comparisons to Missa, I do not know her personally, so I don't know her circumstances. But I do respect her work and all that she has been able to accomplish. Her budget may be influenced by the cost saving measure of her being the talent in many clips, but I have no idea how or why she prices or produces content the way she does. That's unrelated to us entirely with the exception of us both being on clips4sale.


All of that being said, and I know I said a lot, thank you for giving our content a chance, and thank you for the constructive feedback. As I said, we will do the best we can with what we have and always strive for better. But please do not for one second think that we do not care about your comments or that we're just arbitrarily choosing prices. A whole lot of heart goes into making our content. That's just how we roll.

--Nymph
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Unread 08-26-2016   #63
baxter1327
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

A lot of good info there, and good explanation as to what/how/why you're doing things. That kind of dialogue from a vid producer is always welcome here.

Only thing I find mildly concerning is this part:
"One of the primary goals behind this video was to gauge whether or not it is worth producing transformation videos with no sexual acts. It impacts what models we can hire, and by extension, when we are able to shoot them."

I'm not sure if you should read too much into that. I mean, I guess since you're the ones crunching the numbers at the end of the day, you'll see associations the rest of us don't. But from my perspective, there are too many nuances involved in this fetish to judge future production/potential s off of one vid.

For instance, I've bought most of your werewolf TF themed videos. Didn't buy this one though. And it had nothing to do with the fact that there apparently isn't any sexual activity in it. Truth is, after I buy one of your vids, I usually edit it down myself- taking out a lot of the prolonged sexual stuff anyway. So the lack of sex wasn't the aversion for me.
Scared. Screaming. Submissive. That's three strikes and you're out in my book. Especially when it comes to the submissive aspect. I like my animal women predatory. That's part of what makes most of your other vids so awesome is your women are very good at embracing- or portraying- the emergence of those animal instincts. They don't have to then go f*ck everything in sight, but give you the impression they might.

Anyway, my point is, and as I'm sure you already know, there are a lot of factors to take into account with this fetish, and different people put different amounts of weight on those particulars; so if this vid doesn't sell as well as others, don't necessarily chalk it up to the lack of sex. Hell, if you dig around enough on this forum, one thing you'll likely notice is lack of sexual acts (relative to other fetish forums anyway). As the name implies, it's the Process that's important.
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Unread 08-27-2016   #64
PrimalFetish
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

Thanks for the input, Baxter1327. I absolutely get what you're saying and I'll relay the info. I don't want to get all wordy again explaining model selection, but it's an important component of the studio's viability. Like you said, it's not to be read into terribly, and it's mostly number crunching stuff like cost and the rest of the day's productivity.

What I found most thought provoking was where you mentioned submissiveness being a negative. It got my wheels turning about a bunch of things to discuss with the team, so thank you for that especially.

--Nymph
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Unread 08-27-2016   #65
baxter1327
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

No prob. Thx for the reply.

And just for clarification, submissiveness is a negative -for me-. Evidently, other people dig it. Whether i'm in the majority or minority on that front, i have no clue. I just mentioned it as an example of one of many specifics that can affect interest and sales.

In any case, glad it got you thinking on "team" stuff. Looking forward to your future endeavors!
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Unread 08-27-2016   #66
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

Shoe. Busting. Here, like this:

http://imgur.com/a/WgRhV

Do that in a convincing way (with hopefully a better angle) and you'll get a few more buys right off the bat.
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Unread 08-27-2016   #67
LycanDope
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

@PrimalFetish - I'll toss in my thoughts as someone who writes TF/TG erotica. I don't speak for everyone, though, just for me.

I absolutely get the limitations that have to be involved here for you and your crew with costs and time involved. It's a pretty specific fetish and I'm pretty sure that's why Missa has moved away from it. Faster and easier and most likely way more cost effective to do non-effect porn. Blackmail or incest or whatever.

I've purchased some of your videos and liked them well enough. I didn't get this last one since it seemed a little more on the pet play side of things and that doesn't really do it for me personally. However, I continue to check your site throughout the week for new updates.

Anyway! I mentioned being a writer and so I'll pass along some thoughts. I really like the buildup and psychological part of the TF. For me it's not *just* the transformation but the struggle and fight against it. And that's something that can be done without effects. Fetishes being rooted in psychological aspects and other things that you could write books about. It's not just "Bam, now she's a werewolf/werecat/etc... and they have sex" for me. Although yes, sometimes.

Lemme see if I can explain that better and more specifically for your purposes.

I'd like to see a video where a lady is at home. Anxious. Keeps glancing at the time. Her friends (a guy specifically but a guy and a gal perhaps together) call her a couple times to try to convince her to go out with them (she's told them no already). We see flashes of her change. Maybe she's polite but on the second call, there's a little forearm fur growth and her eyes change for just a moment and she growls 'no, I'm not coming out' or something. And then hangs up, bows her head, moaning and growling, licking her lips (perhaps the hint of fangs) and she leans her head back, kneading her thighs, spreading them - shaking and whispering "No, I have this" or something as she pushes the changes back. Just slight changes. Hints of easy fur. Time passes, shows her starting to pace, scratching at her neck (fur grows along her spine as she does). Checks the time, leans against the wall, claws grow on one hand and she scrapes the wall. Shot to a guy friend (slightly drunk) getting into a car, maybe talking on the phone saying he'll go check in on her. Back to the girl. She's in a room (made up as a simple dungeon with chains). She's down to her panties, kneeling as she undoes her shirt. Again, light fur along shoulders and arms. Her shirt's undone and she gasps, going to all fours, growling, raising her hips, maybe show her panties darkening as she grows wet and fur grows down to her panties along her spine. She rocks her hips, whines and licks her lips and finishes undressing, chaining herself up. Very light fur along her stomach. Sweating. Talking to herself to calm herself down. Then glances up and growls. Shot to the guy coming in, calling for her, looking for her. Back to the girl and she's panicking, fighting the changes but sniffing the air. Back to guy and he's laughing a little, stumbling, finds her room and is like "Whoa, why're you chained up" or something - I'm writing quickly here. She tells him he has to go, shuddering, growling a little, sniffing and licking her lips. Turns, telling herself no, trembling and then raises her ass to the guy, looking back, whispering please before growling and lowering her head - here could be some fang growth and eye change. The guy undresses and goes to her. She's whispering to herself as he gets naked to try to fight the change and then raises her hips higher and says "Oh god, I need to be mounted." Maybe a little more fur.

So the guy takes her. I think it'd be neat as it goes along to show a very basic fang change and light claws change and him growling but that's it so it doesn't get too crazy. With him leaning in and telling her he's going to knot her, growling and biting at her shoulder as they fuck.

The things I've seen in the videos is that it kinda too quickly turns into "simple" porn. And in some cases, less is more. I know we aren't dealing with amazing actors and actresses but slow changes, psychological changes and simple dialogue additions can go a long way. I don't even need a tail every time. I'd rather see more fur and other changes. Although adding in a tail is nice if it's done well.

Those are my thoughts. I'm sorry for the huge block of text up above.
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Unread 08-27-2016   #68
Katsumend
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

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Originally Posted by PrimalFetish View Post

What I found most thought provoking was where you mentioned submissiveness being a negative. It got my wheels turning about a bunch of things to discuss with the team, so thank you for that especially.

--Nymph
@PrimalNymph
I like submissiveness personally. You're going to be hard-pressed to find anything that people agree on around here lol. If you have a lot of variety, there'll be something for everyone.
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Unread 08-29-2016   #69
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

My opinion. If I want sex I'll watch porn. If I want TF I don't need sex at all. A slow burn is better. Maybe a witness that has something to do with the change. And less violent, more humiliated and freaked out. "Why did I just smell and pee on the floor?" "Why can't I stop drooling/panting?" It's more about mental loss of control, though physical effects are great to have. Some process, mixed with "changes between edits." Like her eyes change as she looks in a mirror to a deep brown doggy look. And as she rubs them she notices her hands are furry and paw-like, with black pads on them.

I don't know if you have ever read any of my stories, they are mostly mental AR, but I have a couple of doggy mental TF stories.

One in particular has yet to be released. Though it does have more of a woman into a puppy (mentally) bend. Meaning there are doggy diapers mentioned.

If you wish, I could do a screen play-lite adaptation. Most of it would be mental changes. I know you don't like or need a script, just a very general idea. The story in question has two women involved, though I could cut out the second.
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Unread 08-29-2016   #70
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

I'm just going to keep things simple. I haven't bought any primal clips yet for just one reason, and that is a lack of clothes tearing due to the transformation. Most of the previews I've seen the models are either naked, or remove their clothing themselves. I like my transformations where shirts rip, buttons pop, pants rend, stockings run, and shoes burst, filmed in such a way that you can believe the TF is causing it.

If primal includes this in clips in the future, then I'll purchase some. From what I've seen from previews, they are improving effects and makeup wise. They just need to add that last part before I'll buy.
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Unread 08-29-2016   #71
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

I did purchase one, the one with the nurse where she steps on the syringe, and I really liked how she took her clothes off. I'm a fan of clothes ripping, but I love frantically stripping down as well.
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Unread 08-29-2016   #72
baxter1327
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Re: Primal's Transformations - New Releases

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus knight View Post
I'm just going to keep things simple. I haven't bought any primal clips yet for just one reason, and that is a lack of clothes tearing due to the transformation. Most of the previews I've seen the models are either naked, or remove their clothing themselves. I like my transformations where shirts rip, buttons pop, pants rend, stockings run, and shoes burst, filmed in such a way that you can believe the TF is causing it.

If primal includes this in clips in the future, then I'll purchase some. From what I've seen from previews, they are improving effects and makeup wise. They just need to add that last part before I'll buy.
I do agree, this is one of my favorite things. And I think most studios underestimate how much of a boon it would be to both the community and sales (if done right), as it seems to be fairly heavily requested, and spans multiple categories of TF process fetish. ...But it also seems to be something most studios struggle with. And nothing takes you out of a vid faster than seeing some dude's hands sneak into shot while he's pulling a shirt tight over a girl's midriff. So I personally have stopped counting on it as a make or break aspect of purchasing a vid.

Really, as far as C4S is concerned, who has ever really gotten it right? Missa? eh. She definitely had some good shots here and there, but on average among all her vids, the clothes tearing wasn't anything that great.
Probably, IMO, Laurie Steele would be tops, but that's because she's got the physique to Lou Ferigno out of her clothes...seemingly at will. None of Primal's girls (to date) have that sort of build.
I imagine some of that could be overcome by smart clothes buying (cheap, thin materials, rather than say, spandex and wool like some brainiacs have tried), and weakening seams, bleach, etc... but no doubt it's a learning curve, and most studios don't seem to want to spend the time, money, energy in that. Can't really say I blame them.

A couple years back, I was toying with the idea of commissioning a werewolf vid from Ludella. I was actually gonna have her in three different sets of (matching) clothes- each getting progressively smaller as the TF progressed to simulate the TF/growth. The last, smallest set, would be in tatters by the end of the TF but still on her for the duration of the vid. So actually not much nudity, just suggestive tightness and rips in right places.
I got the impression she seemed up for it, but I also got the impression it was gonna get real pricey; so I just went and bought new rims and tires for the ol' truck instead. Practicality is a thing.

Maybe someday (around tax return season?) I'll pick that back up.
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