Evil conversion(for the lack for better term)

[Mazoku]

Originally Posted by pajamavamp

Anything I put out on the web I automatically assume will find it's way everywhere else and on to plenty of other sites. I think about it almost as advertisement at this point.

Like Vampire Sailor Moon part 1 and 2 have widely been taken since Loco had posted them on his forums back when, it's no prob, just a commercial for parts 4-8 which can't be found anywhere else.

But yeah putting VampYou on there would prob make it easier for people to track back my goodies to my site.

There you go, that sort of advertising does help both parties.










How about that oldie but goodie, the tarot Devil arcana card? The version that shows a couple being apparently bound and corrupted. The concept behind it is something that I've only seen used once, which seems odd, in New Mutants #16, by the tarot-wielding mutant called... Tarot.

[wandering_spirit]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but... you've got the Devil card all wrong.

In fact, the Devil card doesn't represent the Devil at all. The card actually represents Pan.

And as for the couple, if you look closer, the shackles they wear are very loose. They could be rid of them and get away anytime, but they don't.

Essentially, the Devil card represents the mind being dominated by basic impulses - lust, for instance. It's not so much corruption as it is not wanting to fight the primal urges a person has.

[Xanderfox]

Originally Posted by Mazoku

There you go, that sort of advertising does help both parties.










How about that oldie but goodie, the tarot Devil arcana card? The version that shows a couple being apparently bound and corrupted. The concept behind it is something that I've only seen used once, which seems odd, in New Mutants #16, by the tarot-wielding mutant called... Tarot.

The transformation isn't that odd if you know that the character being changed, Daniel Moonstar, powers are sensitive to different kinds of energy, and as a result often change for short periods when exposed to physic or magic effects. When the New Mutants went to Asguard(spelled that wrong I think) she got the powers of a Valkyrie just by being there.
Ahh poor Tarot, during the 90's X-Men shakeup Sentinels destroyed the American Hellfire club and killed Tarot and her fellow Hellions (Hellfire clubs version of the New Mutants) rather easy. Poor dear dropped her cards in the middle of battle and could only grab a crap one, the witch she summoned took a energy blast that cut though it and hit poor Tarot in the face.

[Sarasa]

The Weekly 2ch thread has started

http://jun.2chan.net/b/res/15650647.htm

[Mazoku]

Originally Posted by wandering_spirit

Sorry to burst your bubble, but... you've got the Devil card all wrong.

In fact, the Devil card doesn't represent the Devil at all. The card actually represents Pan.

And as for the couple, if you look closer, the shackles they wear are very loose. They could be rid of them and get away anytime, but they don't.

Essentially, the Devil card represents the mind being dominated by basic impulses - lust, for instance. It's not so much corruption as it is not wanting to fight the primal urges a person has.

Hey, you leave my bubble alone. I know there is a nice interpretation of the card, that's why I said "apparently bound and corrupted". However, since we are dealing with the fantasy of EC we can choose a darker aspect if it suits. It all boils down to individuals being dominated by the id, to one degree or another.

Originally Posted by Xanderfox

The transformation isn't that odd if you know that the character being changed, Daniel Moonstar, powers are sensitive to different kinds of energy, and as a result often change for short periods when exposed to physic or magic effects. When the New Mutants went to Asguard(spelled that wrong I think) she got the powers of a Valkyrie just by being there.
Ahh poor Tarot, during the 90's X-Men shakeup Sentinels destroyed the American Hellfire club and killed Tarot and her fellow Hellions (Hellfire clubs version of the New Mutants) rather easy. Poor dear dropped her cards in the middle of battle and could only grab a crap one, the witch she summoned took a energy blast that cut though it and hit poor Tarot in the face.

Ah, actually I meant it's odd that the Devil-card style corruption hasn't been used much in fiction. Seems kind of iconic to me, but as I said, I've only seen this example (Chris Claremont yet again, of course). Only other thing I can think of is a Sailor Moon villain who used Devil cards to make people act evily.

And yah, all those shakeups, where killing off or re-imagining characters went on, got on my nerves, I suspect writer's block is the cause. "Drama... drama... how do I produce drama, an' be all gritty and stuff? I know I'll kill ABC, and radically change XYZ." A lot of the writers can't seem to play with the toys they're given, they get more pleasure breaking them.


Pic below; the Devil, I mean the Great God Pan, is mooning you!

[kyuven]

American comics get so many "shake-ups" these days you could mix paint with them.
And people wonder why one-shots, elseworlds, and manga get more sales >_>

[Mazoku]

Originally Posted by kyuven

American comics get so many "shake-ups" these days you could mix paint with them.
And people wonder why one-shots, elseworlds, and manga get more sales >_>

The manga system seems to work really well for keeping stuff fresh. A bit of deconstruction has appeared here and there, but you don't get that old-and-jaded-writers feel. I don't think American comics editors are really doing the job they should be these days.

[0000user0001]

Originally Posted by Mazoku

The manga system seems to work really well for keeping stuff fresh. A bit of deconstruction has appeared here and there, but you don't get that old-and-jaded-writers feel. I don't think American comics editors are really doing the job they should be these days.

Editors aren't doing their jobs?...... of course they are, just look at the amazingly popular Countdown to Final Crisis.... It was all editorially controlled... thats why it was later removed from continuity

American comics are alot different than manga, they SUPPOSEDLY revolve around continuity which is a joke after all these years. The american have pretty much had the same 100 characters that are re-written over and over into 1000 different stories.

Manga on the other hand goes with 100,000 different stand alone stories that go on for a long time.... (ie Bleach, naruto, goddess, hellsing, getbackers, inuyasha, sailor moon, etc, etc,)

While the former is can be fun for seeing the different possibilities (I am pretty sure every character has gone through an evil conversion AT LEAST ONCE) it gets old making a person want them all to just get killed off and make the writers actually create something new (something rarely done this day in age as far as the entertainment industry goes....)




Sorry that devolved into a bit of personal rant

[kyuven]

Originally Posted by 0000user0001

Editors aren't doing their jobs?...... of course they are, just look at the amazingly popular Countdown to Final Crisis.... It was all editorially controlled... thats why it was later removed from continuity

American comics are alot different than manga, they SUPPOSEDLY revolve around continuity which is a joke after all these years. The american have pretty much had the same 100 characters that are re-written over and over into 1000 different stories.

Manga on the other hand goes with 100,000 different stand alone stories that go on for a long time.... (ie Bleach, naruto, goddess, hellsing, getbackers, inuyasha, sailor moon, etc, etc,)

While the former is can be fun for seeing the different possibilities (I am pretty sure every character has gone through an evil conversion AT LEAST ONCE) it gets old making a person want them all to just get killed off and make the writers actually create something new (something rarely done this day in age as far as the entertainment industry goes....)




Sorry that devolved into a bit of personal rant

The big cheese of all problems with American comics is the fact that characters are not controlled by their creators. Sure anime/manga/video games have instances, such as Dragonball GT, where creative control of a property is moved away from the original author, but by and large the series is largely tied just as closely with the original creator as it is with the company that created it.
American comics? Not so much. Approximately 60% of all problems related with character derailment in American comics can be attributed to giving creative control of a character to a writer that doesn't like them. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Nightwing, Superman, The Goddamn Batman, Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, The Runaways...all of them have or still do suffer from being put into the hands of someone who knows little to nothing about the character, or knows everything about the character and hates them.
Cassandra Cain got the worst of this. TWICE. She went from a reasonably popular character with her own solo book that was a joy to read (in part because dialog was limited. Plenty of inner monologue though) to going against EVERYTHING she stood for after Infinite Crisis by becoming the head of the assassin's guild The Hand. Which, if you know her reason for not killing, makes you wanna slam your head into solid concrete. This instance hit me particularly hard because Cassandra Cain was one of the characters that got me back into American comics.
It was like a personal "fuck you! Go back to yer mangaz!" from the whole medium, and a fate worse than being killed off for my favorite character.

[Snowglare]

Manga isn't so different from small press Western comics. Titles like Scott Pilgrim, Empowered and Bone have one creator, a beginning and an ending.

To paraphrase 0000user0001, mainstream superhero comics and your average shounen/shojo manga have the same problem with dragging out the story for the sake of profit, refusing to kill or permanently develop marketable characters because it's easier than creating new cash cows. The same people who whine about Bill Watterson ending Calvin and Hobbes and nixing all merchandise tend to be put out by Spider-Man's infamous clone saga, deal with the devil, musical, etc. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Given enough time, all concepts are corrupted, twisted into nightmarish doppelgangers of the creator's original vision. For writers, editors and publishers to move on, readers must move on. If we all stopped expecting Superman and Batman to provide more than occasional quality stories, there'd be more room for new characters to step up. Maybe companies could even develop an organic process for changing the guard, so it wasn't so sloppy when the next generation took over. In return, readers would have to accept that their new favorites will be killed off or retired at some point; it'd be a good story, but it'd be their last.

But that's little more likely than companies dropping the shared universe concept that forces so many creators to wade in the same pool. Most people would rather read the same stuff or nothing at all. The manga/anime bubble burst, Vertigo downsized, and the best stories only succeed by tapping into other media, riding the comic movie wave until it inevitably crashes.

The high rate of turnover in Western comics, effectively making them glorified fan fiction, is largely due to creators wanting to "create something new." Runaways, for instance, is in the mess it's in because Brian K. Vaughan left. He also had the best run on Ultimate X-Men, created The Hood and started the excellent Mystique solo title, among other things. Rather than continue those projects, he left them to Marvel, as he would ultimately have to at some point, to focus on creator-owned works like Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina, which stand or fall solely on the efforts of Vaughan and the books' artists.

If you want consistency, follow creators, not characters. Especially not superheroes.

[rb9]

Originally Posted by Ilparazzo

That'll depend on the amount of feedback I get so this thread will play a major part in it.
It might take a while since I'm saving up my pennies for the summer comiket.

I think this was really cool.
This is not to troll or anything but I've always wondered - everyone on the forums seems to go nuts over CN and wildly anticipate any releases of his, seemingly above and beyond other artists. I never quite understood why. The art style doesn't stand out for me. Is it just because his work is almost entirely EC? What am I missing here?

At any rate this was a pretty good comic and I enjoyed it more in English, for sure.

[Sarasa]

Part 2 of the Weekly 2ch thread has started

http://jun.2chan.net/b/res/15658146.htm


Edit :
Thank's for the English version Ilparazzo, I could finally understand what was going on in that CN doujin