"Things Will Change" ~ Lobo Leo

[Lizardman]

Originally Posted by Loboleo

So guys, this is only a retouch of pages and continiuty. The comic will be just THE SAME in storyline. Alright?
For 4 years I've continue the SAME comic. So I'm not entirely sure from where the stories of restarting the comic for 4 time??? are coming... Alpha Luna has ONE story.

Perhaps the whole deleting-pages thing, and starting-over thing? Even if it's the same story, you're starting from page 1 again. And as you admit, you've had precursors of this comic, which you also ended early because you wanted to redo it as something better.

Originally Posted by Loboleo

Lizard, sorry for having a life. But last time I checked I didn't have a contract with you.

No one said you did. But you are a complete tool to your fans. Disappearing for months after asking for money to get to a gallery that you didn't give them access to, no word on what was going on or why you stopped. Yet you logged into Deviant Art at least once a week.

People had hope you would return and continue projects you promised to finish. I've seen your behavior before, and I was right in what you'd do.

Even if you have "a life," if you have time to login to Deviant Art, you had time to update people on why you left, give them access to the gallery they donated money to get, etc.

Own up to your flaky behavior, guy. Your fans deserve better than how you've treated them.

[TrunKated]

Originally Posted by Lizardman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loboleo View Post
So guys, this is only a retouch of pages and continiuty. The comic will be just THE SAME in storyline. Alright?
For 4 years I've continue the SAME comic. So I'm not entirely sure from where the stories of restarting the comic for 4 time??? are coming... Alpha Luna has ONE story.
Perhaps the whole deleting-pages thing, and starting-over thing? Even if it's the same story, you're starting from page 1 again. And as you admit, you've had precursors of this comic, which you also ended early because you wanted to redo it as something better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loboleo View Post
Lizard, sorry for having a life. But last time I checked I didn't have a contract with you.
No one said you did. But you are a complete tool to your fans. Disappearing for months after asking for money to get to a gallery that you didn't give them access to, no word on what was going on or why you stopped. Yet you logged into Deviant Art at least once a week.

People had hope you would return and continue projects you promised to finish. I've seen your behavior before, and I was right in what you'd do.

Even if you have "a life," if you have time to login to Deviant Art, you had time to update people on why you left, give them access to the gallery they donated money to get, etc.

Own up to your flaky behavior, guy. Your fans deserve better than how you've treated them.

<giggle>

Damn, why does that complaint sound so familiar?

Donating money and seeing no updates or results for months. (No, I'm thinking years!)

Oh, well, patience is a virtue for some but not others I guess.

(Patience did pay off to some extent with a certain friend of yours, remember?)

[Akaruime]

Just out of curiosity, Liz, but are you sure you should be the one harping on Leo about aborted projects?

Remember the Transformation Graphic Archive you said you were going to rebuild and make so much better? Not only years ago when you were new on the scene, but later on as a members only gallery linked to the one of several portal sites you've worked on and abandoned over the years. Or how about the different writing projects that come and go, including storefronts that you run to vend your stories and then just forget about as you move on.

And then there's Dragon Magic Store, which had a web presence that said it was being rebuilt for how many years before you finally just abandoned it's online presence as well?

Yes, Leo's disappeared and abandoned projects over the years. But really the only difference between him and you at the simplest level is that Leo completely disappears and doesn't communicate. Maybe the same can be said about any project you do? Given that you have just as much of a life?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Lizardman]

Originally Posted by Akaruime

Just out of curiosity, Liz, but are you sure you should be the one harping on Leo about aborted projects?

Remember the Transformation Graphic Archive you said you were going to rebuild and make so much better? Not only years ago when you were new on the scene, but later on as a members only gallery linked to the one of several portal sites you've worked on and abandoned over the years. Or how about the different writing projects that come and go, including storefronts that you run to vend your stories and then just forget about as you move on.

I redid the TGA as the ATA. Funny you neglected that part. And I stopped bothering when it became clear that the vocal TF fans were idiots. "Updated every other Monday," which always happened when I was working on it, would create questions such as, "When is the next update?"

And the members-only gallery is evolving. Thanks to Miranda Leigh's input over the years, and the needs of artists and the ease of integrating PayPal, it'll become something much better. An alpha of a new software package is being developed and tested.

The portals? Furnpike's still around, but the software is really buggy. I just don't have the time to do up new code, and it's not like there are any people who want to contribute to working on things in the TF fandom anymore. Well, very, very few anyways.

The storefront tested to see the viability of selling TF stories with little work on my end, except the writing. And it turned out that it wasn't worth my time. I make more money selling to publishers and artists than making cheap downloads.

Originally Posted by Akaruime

And then there's Dragon Magic Store, which had a web presence that said it was being rebuilt for how many years before you finally just abandoned it's online presence as well?

Because I went back to school, and since then the market has dried up. So why continue something that will end up losing money for me?

Originally Posted by Akaruime

Yes, Leo's disappeared and abandoned projects over the years. But really the only difference between him and you at the simplest level is that Leo completely disappears and doesn't communicate. Maybe the same can be said about any project you do? Given that you have just as much of a life?

I work on what interests me and, hopefully, helps to pay the bills. If something fails at one or both, it stops.

Difference is, in the time of more than a year when Leo barely made a peep, his banners to donate to get into his gallery remained. Anything I offered for sale had deliveries of what people bought; the only thing remaining are a few commissions that are being finished with illustrations now (illustrations were not part of the original commissions) as thanks for being really patient.

So there's distinct differences. A larger difference is that I don't treat my fans like complete shit; I only treat those deserving of it who have personal axes to grind.

[TrunKated]

Originally Posted by Lizardman

. . .
Difference is, in the time of more than a year when Leo barely made a peep, his banners to donate to get into his gallery remained. Anything I offered for sale had deliveries of what people bought; the only thing remaining are a few commissions that are being finished with illustrations now (illustrations were not part of the original commissions) as thanks for being really patient.
. . .

That's pretty much the same complaint I had about your buddy, D-. You know, the guy you defended to the teeth. He had links to keep donating, but had no progress information on his site. Just a bar that said 100% to goal, then suddenly a SECOND bar popped up and said there was a NEW goal. BUT, D- FINALLY reopened his site.

Patience, Kimba. Patience!

<giggle>

[Shadow_Dragon]

Originally Posted by TrunKated

That's pretty much the same complaint I had about your buddy, D-. You know, the guy you defended to the teeth. He had links to keep donating, but had no progress information on his site. Just a bar that said 100% to goal, then suddenly a SECOND bar popped up and said there was a NEW goal. BUT, D- FINALLY reopened his site.

Patience, Kimba. Patience!

<giggle>

Since when has thas thread turned into a Jerry Springer studio?

Seriously, take it to the pms and emails.

Lobo Leo, I respect your return, and we all love you and your comics/arts/animations, but it would help to give some updates every now and then.

[Soty]

DISREGARD THAT: I SUCK COCKS!

Well, which is to say, I was a bit hasty to criticize Liz here. Apologies all around. I shouldn't have chastised him for simply being a consumer advocate. Mea culpa.

[dorintf]

Ugh. Drama.

Lobo, good to see you're back.

[morwalugi]

Originally Posted by Akaruime

Just out of curiosity, Liz, but are you sure you should be the one harping on Leo about aborted projects?

.

If you go back to Page 1 you'll see that somewhere between

Chef123's post and ...anthropoids post the idea was forming that
Leo Lobo had done a very bad thing that stiffed the public.

Liz's post came afterwards.

Hence don't blame Liz,cuz others were saying the same thing before him.

So

-the 'public' say Leo did a very bad thing
-Liz comes along and agrees that Leo did a very bad thing
-someone else comes along and says Liz and D- also did very bad things
-therefore Leo obviously did not do a very bad thing

I don't think so!

The 'public's' accusation is still there and won't go away regardless of
Liz's involvement afterwards

[LK]

I hate it when Lizard is right. But he's right.

[Loboleo]

[QUOTE=Lizardman;261111]Perhaps the whole deleting-pages thing, and starting-over thing? Even if it's the same story, you're starting from page 1 again. And as you admit, you've had precursors of this comic, which you also ended early because you wanted to redo it as something better.
[quote]

And you make it sound like it was a bad thing. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only artist out there who have re-made an idea to make it better. That is part of creating. Story writers know this too.

Disappearing for months after asking for money to get to a gallery that you didn't give them access to, no word on what was going on or why you stopped. Yet you logged into Deviant Art at least once a week.

I do apologize for my disappearing, but shit happens and there is certanly nothing you can do when RL and health issues take priority. I do apologize for not being communicative at the time. But loging in from anywhere else just to read it's not just the same that take hours of your time to active, reply email and account one by one.

In the time I've worked -online- I never left anyone who donated without an account, about 2000 visitors have created accounts of which I've setup 200 or more 1 by 1 since 2005. All those who are now accountless correspond to those who donated in the time spam of my hiatus. And since my return a few weeks ago I haven't been able to do a thing with the domain change taking place.

Yes guys, loboleo.net was taken and I'll be running a new dot domain soon as I get response from the woolnet server.

People had hope you would return and continue projects you promised to finish. I've seen your behavior before, and I was right in what you'd do.

And I've returned. I'll continue the projects because that it's what matters. If you want to act like you know anything... do so. If you're not helping me out here, why do you complain?, you didn't want me to get back? Have you ever done anything for me?, I think not. If you're not part of the solution, step aside. I apreciate those who lend me a hand in this difficult momments. I thank to those people.

Leo

[fox_drifter]

I feel kind of in the middle here. I think an artist who's giving the community something without asking for anything in return (and a lot on Leo's website was, in fact, free) has every right to do whatever the hell he wants with it and owes fans absolutely nothing. I like a lot of things on the internet that people have produced, but never has that represented any kind of contract that means I can expect *anything* from them. When someone says they'll update x times per y and then doesn't, I shrug and stop checking as often (if at all), and find something else. They stop getting pageviews and I stop wasting my time. Doesn't mean I enjoyed their work any less, but it was provided gratis to me.

Let me reiterate that. Free work is work with no strings attached. Appreciate that it's out there and realize that things happen to interrupt receiving more of it.

On the (very large, very dangerous) other hand, money changing hands means responsibility is laid upon someone. If people give you money to access your art, it carries with it certain expectations for more (whether deserved or not). Leo asked for donations, and that's kind of a sticky gray area. It was, however, a flat fee, and not a subscription. If you consider it more like buying a book and less like signing up for continual service, you might feel a tad better about it. I think it might serve you a little better, Leo, if you specifically pointed this out in your donation page. 'Donors will receive access to all previous materials, and potential future works, but this does not guarantee the donor any new material beyond what is currently provided.'

As a side note, Leo. While I've never donated to your site, you're one of the first artists that caught my attention in the TF community back in Transfur (way back when all of your material was there). Kudos on being a fine artist regardless of business plans and internet drama.