Conservatives Hate Obama More Than They Love America

[kia252]

Originally Posted by DalekSec

Europe has not mattered since the end of WW2 and I dare anyone to prove me wrong on the basis of historic fact. China is about all that matters in Asia. Deal with it. As folks Yammer, China thanks you for the money and entertainments.

Yes kids, hate it all you like but the U.S. has done far more good than ill and is the most generous, innovative and accepting nation IN THE WORLD! Doubt it, travel a bit and have a look for yourself.

You know, this is funny coming from someone who adopts a pseudonym from a British television series.
Humor aside, what's you standard for what "matters." I hope I'm not out of line pulling from your context to think you mean military and economic power are what makes a nation "matter." While this is not to say that those are not important, certainly there has been tremendous social, cultural, and scientific progress in many countries that rival the U.S. even if they may not have military might or wealth we do. If we're such a great nation, then a little humility and respect for others shouldn't be beyond our grasp

[DalekSec]

Originally Posted by kia252

You know, this is funny coming from someone who adopts a pseudonym from a British television series.
Humor aside, what's you standard for what "matters." I hope I'm not out of line pulling from your context to think you mean military and economic power are what makes a nation "matter." While this is not to say that those are not important, certainly there has been tremendous social, cultural, and scientific progress in many countries that rival the U.S. even if they may not have military might or wealth we do. If we're such a great nation, then a little humility and respect for others shouldn't be beyond our grasp

Do HO!

Fell right into my evil trap you did there. *Evil Grin*

I was a dual national at one time. British and American thanks to the roaming nature of my parents. I am very well versed in British culture as well as American culture and CHOSE to drop my British citizenship all together when the U.K. became a Socialist nightmare.

Ok, I can, as an historian, walk through any museum in the world and appreciate every artifact in it. I can, as a matter of one of the fields I teach in, regale you with the glory that WAS Rome and the incredible nature of Ancient Greece. Does it matter? Nope, not really. Makes me a wiz at Trivial Pursuit and I thoroughly adore discussing and teaching history but, will it buy you a cup of coffee to be able to name the Julio-Claudian Emperors? Sorry, don?t think so.

So, does this make Rome and Greece less than say the U.S. or China? Today? You bet. If you spoke no language, I would be really mean to teach you only Latin or only Greek in today?s world. English, Chinese and Russian will serve you far better. WHY? DUH! Read a paper of late? Watch TV news at all? No one CARES about Latin or Ancient Greek aside from fuzzy headed Profs who get their jollies from tormenting young minds with various declensions and grammar in languages most will never use.

In the 20th C, there is little point to debating the obvious fact that the U.S. was an empire even though being an empire never suited it. England had lost its power from the previous century and Spain, France and Portugal had not mattered since wind driven ships of wood sailed the oceans. Mean? Prove me wrong. Mean has nothing to do with it. Is there any doubt that the U.S. led the way in technology, innovation, LIBERTY and still continues to be the provider of FOOD for a sizable portion of the world? Now, as we lumber into the 21st C, CHINA is rising as the world power. Do I like this? Not really. I find their dictatorship abhorrent and refuse to buy any product made in China because I oppose slave labor and murder. Call me odd. If they surpass the U.S. as the center of the modern world in this century, that will, in my opinion be a shame but if we come to the same fate as Europe, needy, economically flat and morally timid to oppose evil in a real and meaningful way, we too shall not matter.

Face it, as nice, pretty, cool and downright sexy Europe can be, at this point they are the party guest who can only bring a single six pack of beer when we have tons. Invite them? Sure, they are fun. Worry if they do not show? Nope, not really. For a single six pack of beer, who cares really.

[LOD]

Hey Prof, I might be one of the few people around my age that enjoys learning about history. Europe maybe an un-needed party guest, but that history rich land still draws my intrest.

[DalekSec]

Originally Posted by liveordie83

Hey Prof, I might be one of the few people around my age that enjoys learning about history. Europe maybe an un-needed party guest, but that history rich land still draws my intrest.

And WHAT did I say about ROME? Ancient Greece? Egypt? I adore them as matters of history. I will bore you to death, given the chance, as I describe in great detail the EPIC natures of these cultures. Does Rome matter today? Here and now in the modern era? Does Greece? Ancient Egypt? Is the world Roman as it once was? Don’t think so kids. Do I respect the history of Rome? You bet and it is fun as all get out. Do I think Rome will rise to enter the world game? Nope, all gone now and never coming back as far as I can tell.

I did not say Europe is FAIL. I enjoy the foods, art and cultures just fine. I am addicted to strange German music and think German Fetish stuff rules! What I SAID, boils down to this. Right now, in the world, Europe is not a major player in the game. If Russia, China and the U.S. were not at odds, we could (Being totally evil of course) roll over Europe, kill the men, burn it to the ground and rape the women and the horses. There is nothing Europe could do to compete militarily OR economically as European nations attempt to stall their lurch towards Jihad and Muslim rule.

[LOD]

Wow!!

You really think radical muslims will take over? I thought most of them over there were being discriminated against....

[DalekSec]

Well, looking at the immigration numbers, birthrates and my last visit to the U.K. this year, I tend to think they are.

Discrimination is the most effective way of fermenting revolution of an either violent OR slow process. Keeping them in the country but not fully bringing them into the over all culture can only marginalize the population and cause them to see the currently dominant society as alien and in opposition to them.

[LOD]

And even with the immigration issues present here we still do a better job welcoming new citizens into our culture.

We are the US! We will assimilate you!!

Resistance is lulzable!!!

[monkat]

Originally Posted by liveordie83

Wow!!

You really think radical muslims will take over? I thought most of them over there were being discriminated against....

Originally Posted by DalekSec

Well, looking at the immigration numbers, birthrates and my last visit to the U.K. this year, I tend to think they are.

First off, not all muslims are radical, except in the regard that they, oh so radically, believe something slightly different than the popular Christian belief.

Secondly, as you seem to have pointed at, Dalek, it's your own damn faults! Not because you let them in, each one of them has their own story, and each one of them has a reason to come - some good, some bad, an extremely small percentage hurtful. But, rather, it's your fault because you are not integrating them in a beneficial way! You're setting them further and further apart from yourselves, causing much increased hatred as a result. The US doesn't act much more beneficially, in that we expect them to be exactly like us in every regard, and, in fact, often get angry when they don't. Canada, on the other hand, accepts all different cultures and actually encourages them to share it! There's nothing beneficial about a static culture - it must be dynamic! That's, actually, the whole point of open source software (sorry, had to plug it)!

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I can contribute politely and meaningfully

Now if you'll come off your childish, hypocritical screaming

Have I told you that I hate liars? Well I do.

I point to an argument, share what is wrong with it and defend the assertion

And throw in some self congratulatory drivel and spew insults to build yourself up but hey, let's not worry about minor details.

That's all well and good, but the problem is what the Constitution actually permits. A great deal of Constitutional law is and always has been whether or not an issue not directly addressed by Constitution is implied, inferred, or ought to be addressed. Even the men who drafted the document argued over what it actually meant after the ratification, and immediately felt it necessary propose 12 amendments to specifically limit and define the government and bring forth arguments for the role of the new government. This is the greatness of the Constitution that is so often touted as a living document. Knowing that no framework is perfect or timeless, it was given mechanisms to adapt to new social and economic ideals, new responsibilities or limits or government, or new technologies and ideas through amendment or establishment of legal precedents based on the standing document.

No shit! Stop trying to build strawmen. The amendment process is part of the constitution too. The whole point is that the rules can be changed if the times demand it but it should not be something done lightly. In other words, if something does need to be changed, then go through the proper process. Don't just break rules because you don't like them and that's what governments get away with too often. THAT is what I have a problem with. The fact that you jump to this conclusion says to me that you want to see a loon and nothing more so don't try and tell me that you're all fair minded because you're not convincing me of that with your actions here.

The problem with the Libertarian idea is that it is so very uncompromising and literal, that it refuses to accept that there is grounds for interpreting intent and applying it to a modern context and probably stands in opposition, just as well, to changing a document that they revere. However, given the early context of dissent to the Constitution itself, I feel I must reject an absolutist Libertarian ideal because it denies to the Constitution what is supposed to make it so great. Honestly, would you actually argue its greatness if the framers had NOT proposed the Bill of Rights? If not, then I imagine you can see what is wrong with the literalist interpretation.

Strawman, where does it say that libertarianism opposes amendments? Show me, right now.

The assertion that there were no unconstitutional acts between 1789 and 1932

Strawman, I said no such thing. Don't take my statements and extremify them. That's intellectual dishonesty and you know it.

This was most certainly not ignorance of the Constitution, and most definitely suggests that it has been upheld despite aggressive Executive pursuit of sometimes questionable policy.

I'm going to make sure I'm clear here. Are you honestly suggesting the constitution has been overall upheld to the present day?

[DalekSec]

Originally Posted by monkat

First off, not all muslims are radical, except in the regard that they, oh so radically, believe something slightly different than the popular Christian belief.

Secondly, as you seem to have pointed at, Dalek, it's your own damn faults! Not because you let them in, each one of them has their own story, and each one of them has a reason to come - some good, some bad, an extremely small percentage hurtful. But, rather, it's your fault because you are not integrating them in a beneficial way! You're setting them further and further apart from yourselves, causing much increased hatred as a result. The US doesn't act much more beneficially, in that we expect them to be exactly like us in every regard, and, in fact, often get angry when they don't. Canada, on the other hand, accepts all different cultures and actually encourages them to share it! There's nothing beneficial about a static culture - it must be dynamic! That's, actually, the whole point of open source software (sorry, had to plug it)!

True on all counts with the exception of Islam at this point in history. Not that all Muslims are radical but the radical elements have risen to the top of their particular food chain. Of course most are, like most humans, the go along get along sort. However, if we look at the upper tiers we discover either rabid frothing as they demand recognition of their religion as law OR more common, acquiescent silence to the issue of mad bombers and Jihad Joes. Of course the fact that the current flow of Islamic thought makes it impossible for non Muslims to live among them in peace, oh well, let the games play out.

Of course cowardly Europe is to blame as much as we in the U.S. are for refusing to secure our borders in time of war and want as well as deciding that those south of the border are inherently too inferior to follow the law or learn English. How else can one explain treating invaders in the way we do? How else can you explain Govt. documents in Spanish INCLUDING BALLOTS!

Tolerance (Without limit) is the last virtue of a dying civilization.

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by DalekSec

...and Jihad Joes.

*chorus* Jiiii-had JOOOOOOOOOOOE!

...Sorry, I had to. But at least now I know it's out of my system. And knowing is half the battle.

Originally Posted by DalekSec

How else can one explain treating invaders in the way we do? How else can you explain Govt. documents in Spanish INCLUDING BALLOTS!

Tolerance (Without limit) is the last virtue of a dying civilization.

I'll second that. It really bugs me that so many damn things are in Spanish these days. Best T-shirt I ever saw: "Welcome to America. Now SPEAK ENGLISH!"

[Sephie]

tldr