Health Care Passes the US House!

[LOD]

Originally Posted by qzar9999

You know, the government has been running the public school system for decades. If one looks at how the schools in this country are doing, it makes one wonder why letting them handle health care is a good idea...

People in this country seem to forget that the government is...YOU

What about by the people, for the people have the people missed?

The government didn't elect incompetent leaders... The People did!

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by liveordie83

People in this country seem to forget that the government is...YOU

The vast majority were opposed to the bailouts. The state did it anyway.

Sorry, doesn't hold up.

What about by the people, for the people have the people missed?

The government didn't elect incompetent leaders... The People did!

That's what the advertising says but it doesn't actually happen. The people have the choice of incompetent buffoon A or incompetent buffoon B. Any other choices are marginalized out of the picture by the system that A and B set up.

It's all a sham anyway even if this were not so because democracy is nothing more than glorified mob rule. If you don't approve of a leader and he gets elected, tough! There is nothing admirable about a majority forcing their will upon the minority whatsoever and as Rachel explained, all elections do is encourage the political class to be on their best behaviour during election time and then that completely goes out the window once they're in. Obama's long list of broken promises is proof of that.

For the genuinely curious, a very in depth study on both the US's and Canada's healthcare systems, both are heavily sourced.

US's


Canada's

Do keep in mind, these videos are for the genuinely curious only. If your first impulse to seeing a different opinion is to hurl accusations and ad hominems, these vids are not for you.

[Bozo]

Low-income families are already provided national insurance called Medicaid. Problems happen when someone is just above that line. This is the result of fuzzy ideas like "low income families." Without numbers, those words are useless. But people are stupid. People hate numbers. And that doesn't just go for Americans. Because if we spoke of numbers, people would see how ridiculous it is to provide Medicaid to a family grossing up to $25,000/year but not the family that grosses $25,500/year (numbers are ballpark). Same thing with forcing insurance on said "low income families."

And it's not true that Americans don't want cures. Use that logic to explain the recent wave of vaccinophobia that has spread throughout the country. The vaccine is the best clear-cut example of preventative medicine and people have shunned it for symptomatic relief instead.

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Lord T Hawkeye

The vast majority were opposed to the bailouts. The state did it anyway.

Sorry, doesn't hold up.

Bailouts were brought on because we elected the wrong people for the office in the first place.....

Originally Posted by Lord T Hawkeye

That's what the advertising says but it doesn't actually happen. The people have the choice of incompetent buffoon A or incompetent buffoon B. Any other choices are marginalized out of the picture by the system that A and B set up.

It's all a sham anyway even if this were not so because democracy is nothing more than glorified mob rule. If you don't approve of a leader and he gets elected, tough! There is nothing admirable about a majority forcing their will upon the minority whatsoever and as Rachel explained, all elections do is encourage the political class to be on their best behaviour during election time and then that completely goes out the window once they're in. Obama's long list of broken promises is proof of that.

The majority want change in our government the problem is the way we would have to go about doing that is far harder than anything they have ever done in their normal lives.

Originally Posted by Bozo

And it's not true that Americans don't want cures. Use that logic to explain the recent wave of vaccinophobia that has spread throughout the country. The vaccine is the best clear-cut example of preventative medicine and people have shunned it for symptomatic relief instead.

It's true that Americans want to be cured, but American Drug Companies want you to be cured by taking their pills everyday for the rest of your life.

[Rachel Bronwyn]

Once the election is over though, "the people" have little or no control over the behaviour of the government. The government often is a horrible misrepresentation of the people.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

They say they want change but the truth is, everyone turns into frightened little children at the sight of REAL change. Seriously, you could start punching someone in the balls and continue doing it repeatedly for a few weeks. The day you stop, he'll go "What are you doing? Why aren't you punching me in the balls anymore? You can't change the system!"

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Lord T Hawkeye

They say they want change but the truth is, everyone turns into frightened little children at the sight of REAL change. Seriously, you could start punching someone in the balls and continue doing it repeatedly for a few weeks. The day you stop, he'll go "What are you doing? Why aren't you punching me in the balls anymore? You can't change the system!"

We desperately need to transform our government into more than just a two party system. People need to represent their constituents and not national organizations. The way this went down party lines again was completely embarrassing, Republicans have to live in districts that favor this but none of them voted for it.

[qzar9999]

Originally Posted by Rachel Bronwyn

Once the election is over though, "the people" have little or no control over the behaviour of the government. The government often is a horrible misrepresentation of the people.

Wow. I found something else that I completely agree with you on. Completely valid point and well made. And it's a very, very serious problem, too.

Originally Posted by Lord T Hawkeye

They say they want change but the truth is, everyone turns into frightened little children at the sight of REAL change. Seriously, you could start punching someone in the balls and continue doing it repeatedly for a few weeks. The day you stop, he'll go "What are you doing? Why aren't you punching me in the balls anymore? You can't change the system!"

Originally Posted by liveordie83

We desperately need to transform our government into more than just a two party system. People need to represent their constituents and not national organizations. The way this went down party lines again was completely embarrassing, Republicans have to live in districts that favor this but none of them voted for it.

If people really, seriously want change, they ought to elect Libertarians and independents. That'd get some serious change. Kick out all those old codgers who never get anything done and replace 'em all with fresh faces who have new and different ideas.

[Bozo]

Y'know what...over the past 3 years or so I've been leaning more right but I can't help but say on this one: good job. I just can't fight this one when it comes to health. We're going to have less suffering because of this. And when the mandatory insurance kicks in in 2014, it'll make all insurance cheaper because it's all going to be the same pot (more or less). Yeah, we can talk about greed and what not and that's true but I don't think cynicism tells the whole story. Does it necessarily mean someone unscrupulous will abuse this? No, it doesn't.
What it WILL do is increase the need for more hospitals and health care professionals, and then they will get built, and more private practices will pop us as well. There's good money to be made from this.
And I don't think that's a bad thing...I don't get it when people are all about bashing those who make money off of good ideas. Just because Joe CEO made more money today than most of us did last year doesn't mean we should be angry with him or the system that lets him do that, because Joe CEO is also responsible for other workers and the purchasers of his product. He may not work hard, he may have stepped in shit, he may rely on his competent subordinates, but who cares. It could be you one day, just as lucky as he.
That's why I don't think this is really all that socialist. Socialism has the effect of so-called "leveling the playing field." You bring up those on the bottom at the sacrifice of bringing down those on the top and, hey, that's worse than it sounds. I don't see that happening here. I see the creation of some great capitalist opportunities that will benefit producers and purchasers.

[Bozo]

I just want to know how this is going to affect my future as a physician. Should I just throw my hands up and commit to military medicine instead? They don't need malpractice insurance...

[sodacat]

Originally Posted by Bozo

I just want to know how this is going to affect my future as a physician..

From what I've seen it's not going to do much, but look out for that 3% tax on medical equipment that pops up in 2013. Also I hope no one here likes using tanning parlors.

EDIT!

OK yeah and a whole load of medicare changes intended to reduce the number of tests, plus a pay bonus to make up for the lost income from doing those tests.

[Jitensha]

I don't know why you guys look so down on this win for America when the rest of the first world has government funded health care. When I lived in Japan for a year I experienced it first hand. This was before Obama was president, before I even knew what universal health care was, but when I finally had the opportunity to use it, I was amazed over this government service. I originally started there with an international company insurance, but I found it to be overpriced and annoying because you had to pay in full and then receive owed money later on, so I decided to switch to the "national health insurance". I payed around 20 bucks in total for the year, and I never worried about it again. Later on I had an issue with my leg and I went to go see the doctor about it. I decided to go to a nearby clinic for a check-up on my leg, then a follow up the next week. Each time I only paid $10 INCLUDING the prescription medicine. The doctor was very friendly, and caring for me, no different than any other doctor I visited. After the 2 weeks, my problem went away, and luckily I didn't have to see another doctor while I was in Japan, even though I knew I could if I needed to.

Since coming back to the USA, I've had problems finding work. Because of this, I obviously can't afford health insurance and there is SOOO much that I need to get done. I haven't seen a OBGYN in over a year, I have compacted wisdom teeth for 6+ months now that are EXTREMELY painful, my leg problem has come back, and I need to get the meds I got before, and lastly I have Costochondritis and panic attacks. I really need meds for these...I've been without health insurance for so long, and not seeing the doctors I need is going to lead to more health concerns. Having a universal heath care system will help us take care of these problems before we have too many, and cannot work any longer or provide in our communities. It might take time to get these laws implemented, but one of the things the president said he would get out there ASAP is to allow parents to put their children up to 26 years old on their insurance plans. That would help me a lot.

OK, we all know the bill isn't perfect, but in time it will be as close to perfect as possible. I think what went on yesterday is the first step into getting to a more modern and peaceful America.