Health Care Passes the US House!

[Bozo]

Y'know what...over the past 3 years or so I've been leaning more right but I can't help but say on this one: good job. I just can't fight this one when it comes to health. We're going to have less suffering because of this. And when the mandatory insurance kicks in in 2014, it'll make all insurance cheaper because it's all going to be the same pot (more or less). Yeah, we can talk about greed and what not and that's true but I don't think cynicism tells the whole story. Does it necessarily mean someone unscrupulous will abuse this? No, it doesn't.
What it WILL do is increase the need for more hospitals and health care professionals, and then they will get built, and more private practices will pop us as well. There's good money to be made from this.
And I don't think that's a bad thing...I don't get it when people are all about bashing those who make money off of good ideas. Just because Joe CEO made more money today than most of us did last year doesn't mean we should be angry with him or the system that lets him do that, because Joe CEO is also responsible for other workers and the purchasers of his product. He may not work hard, he may have stepped in shit, he may rely on his competent subordinates, but who cares. It could be you one day, just as lucky as he.
That's why I don't think this is really all that socialist. Socialism has the effect of so-called "leveling the playing field." You bring up those on the bottom at the sacrifice of bringing down those on the top and, hey, that's worse than it sounds. I don't see that happening here. I see the creation of some great capitalist opportunities that will benefit producers and purchasers.

[Rachel Bronwyn]

Originally Posted by liveordie83

What about the further research that was done to make other similar drugs and more powerful drugs?
A waste I say....

By saying this, you?re essentially deeming everyone with sexual dysfunction undeserving of a healthy, normal sex life.

Products like Viagra improve people?s quality of life enormously. I wouldn?t call the research and production of such products a waste at all.

To deem every medical advance that doesn?t cure or prevent disease a waste is really very short-sighted.

Originally Posted by Jitensha

Since coming back to the USA, I've had problems finding work. Because of this, I obviously can't afford health insurance and there is SOOO much that I need to get done. I haven't seen a OBGYN in over a year, I have compacted wisdom teeth for 6+ months now that are EXTREMELY painful, my leg problem has come back, and I need to get the meds I got before, and lastly I have Costochondritis and panic attacks. I really need meds for these...I've been without health insurance for so long, and not seeing the doctors I need is going to lead to more health concerns.

This is the kind of stuff that gives me nightmares.

Two years ago I was in a scenario as close to what you describe as I ever hope to be (and, to be honest, my situation wasn?t much like it.) I was working a shitty, minimum wage job that didn?t provide me with extended medical or dental benefits. I was paying off some debt I?d accrued in school and struggling to pay my bills. I couldn?t afford to pay for extended health and dental coverage. Obviously, all my visits to the doctor were free as I?m Canadian in Canada, so I was able to get things looked at and have basic procedures like pap smears and see specialists if I required specialised care. Without extended benefits though, I had to pay for my medications up front and was subsidised annually. I take three medications a day. I went nearly two years without seeing a dentist. It was a miracle I was cavity-free when I finally did have my teeth cleaned. I gave up on visiting my physiotherapist, who I?d seen every two weeks since I was sixteen or seventeen.

If I?d been an American in the US, I wouldn?t have even been able to afford my medications, considering the insane cost of drugs across the border. Not that I?d have been able to afford the doctor?s visit and prescription anyways, so I try not to bitch too much.

I have very little to complain about, particularly since I?ve attained a real job and the extended health and dental benefits that come with it. While I could have had my wisdom teeth removed under basic Canadian healthcare in a hospital, I had the option to have it done for free in a cushy private office with nice music playing that was close to home. Not that there?s really anything wrong with Canadian hospitals. They?re just busy.

It makes me super sad to think there are nations in the world in which basic health care isn?t something humans are entitled to and provided with.

And now I'm off to bed so I can get up bright and early to visit my doctor, go to the radiology clinic for some X-rays and then to my physiotherapist's. I love not having to worry about paying for any of this.

[Vengeance1701]

Yeah, Jitensha highlights a big problem.

Even if we just want to get checkups, make sure we're all okay, it's not cheap. It's stressful. Things get worse when you're stressed.

At the very least, it should be relatively inexpensive to get the basics taken care of.

If you want plastic surgery or anything else that's unnecessary, that's on your own lookout.

But why should people have to worry about getting sick?

[Soccermom]

Originally Posted by Vengeance1701

If you want plastic surgery or anything else that's unnecessary, that's on your own lookout.

Just out of curiosity, Rachel just got through saying she didn't think Viagra was a waste of time for medical research purposes. You say plastic surgery is unnecessary. Both improve a somewhat nebulous idea called "quality of life."

At what point does your "quality of life" stop cutting into my tax dollars? Thoughts?

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Soccermom

At what point does your "quality of life" stop cutting into my tax dollars? Thoughts?

At the point someone needs surgery to walk, run, sit, or stand.

We shouldn't be paying for boob jobs, but liposuction being paid for would reduce hospital visits all over the country..

[Soccermom]

Originally Posted by liveordie83

We shouldn't be paying for boob jobs, but liposuction being paid for would reduce hospital visits all over the country..

Really? Liposuction? I am fairly overweight(5'10'' nearly 300lbs) and I would never dream of stealing someone else's money to have a surgery for an issue I brought on myself. That is selfish incarnate.

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Soccermom

Really? Liposuction? I am fairly overweight(5'10'' nearly 300lbs) and I would never dream of stealing someone else's money to have a surgery for an issue I brought on myself. That is selfish incarnate.

Yes I am serious. We are talking about bettering people's health here and preventing heart attacks.

Americans it seems refuse to listen to experts that diet and exercise is what they need, instead they waste their money of Fab diets that don't work and they gain back even more weight than before.

Will liposuction alone be enough? Hell no, they'll need to change a lot in their daily life in order for it to do any good.

Hell it's a lot better than gastric bypass surgery which is already covered by most insurance plans.

[Rachel Bronwyn]

If liposuction alone isn't good enough and, ultimately, the only way it will have a positive effect is if the individual recieving it chooses to change their lifestyle, it is asbsolutely without merit to provide them with it for free.

There's a method by which people attain the exact same results, except they aren't left with physical scars and it requires long-term committment to changing one's lifestyle. It's called a healthy diet. You don't even have to exercise if you eat no more than you require to function. It's also significantly more likely for people who lose weight via a proper diet and activity to keep the weight off than it is for people who get quick fixes like liposuction. I don't buy the argument that it just doesn't work for Americans. If Americans were more often held responsible for their poor dietary decisions and weren't provided with gastric bypass surgery by the insurance they recieve from work they might realise health IS an individual's responsibility and wouldn't be so fat.

Regardless, liposcution doesn't benefit people, healthwise, nor do lap-band or gastric bypass surgery. The plumbing remains clogged and risk of heart attack doesn't change. Liposuction just knocks excess external weight off. Lap-band and gastric bypass reduce appetite, ensuring the arteries don't become further clogged. It's activity that clears the plumbing though. Obese people also require far more intensive care than fit people while in hospital and are at high risk of healing poorly. If anything, freebie liposuction days would just increase the amount of time overweight people spend in the hospital due to all the complications.

People who bring severe health problems upon themselves need to be held responsible. They know the risks of their behaviour. They are entitled to eat/smoke/drink/whatever themselves to death if they so chose. Not I nor anyone else should be made responsible for the poor choices others make that result in health challenges. While I am eager to ensure everyone recieves care for what is outside their control, I have no time for people demanding I finance quick fixes to the results of their bad habits, particularly when there are significantly more effective methods by which to regain good health that wouldn't require I shell out so much as a dollar.

Am I in favour of fat people and smokers being denied open heart surgery when they show up at the ER, having a MI? No. At that point, there is not another option. Keeping people alive is one thing. Absolving them of responsibility for the results of their bad behaviour and essentially enabling them is another.

There is absolutely no reason to provide people with liposuction or lap-band or gastric bypass under the guise of healthcare. There are healthier, more effective means by which to obtain the same results without burdening tax payers or absolving individuals of responsibility. When you behave in a manner you know will result in poor health you take full responsibility for the poor health you're stuck with.

Pathological sexual dysfunction is something I believe people are entitled to have treated because it's a legitimate physical disorder outside one's power. I believe people are entitled to properly functioning anatomy and the ability to have good sex. I can't accept the notion dudes in their forties experiencing minimal loss of sexual function should be provided with free Viagra though. That's part of aging and it doesn't negate your ability to have good sex. If you want to experience the artificial wonders of Viagra, pay for it.

I certainly don't think people should be able to recieve collagen injections in their lips (which I absolutely love but can't stand spending the money on anymore) for free on the basis it will improve their self esteem. My having chicken lips which I'm not fond of is not remotely comparable to someone else lacking the physical ability to function normally. My lips are normal. They function normally. A healthy individual suffering from pathological sexual dysfunction is not normal.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by liveordie83

You will receive money to pay for insurance, all us poor folks have to do now is choose which corporate fat cat we want to give our subsidies to.

Correction: You will receive some of my money taken via higher premiums and fines to support your healthcare until such time as I decide that I don't get paid enough to work, move to a warm state and live as a beach bum. Then you get nothing and the whole system goes the way of the Soviet Union.

[Soccermom]

Originally Posted by Rachel Bronwyn

There is absolutely no reason to provide people with liposuction or lap-band or gastric bypass under the guise of healthcare. There are healthier, more effective means by which to obtain the same results without burdening tax payers or absolving individuals of responsibility. When you behave in a manner you know will result in poor health you take full responsibility for the poor health you're stuck with.

Hell just froze over, pigs just flew, and a monkey just came out of my ass.

Rachel and I agree on something.

[Soccermom]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Correction: You will receive some of my money taken via higher premiums and fines to support your healthcare until such time as I decide that I don't get paid enough to work, move to a warm state and live as a beach bum. Then you get nothing and the whole system goes the way of the Soviet Union.

Hey now. We don't need any of that truth in here!

[LOD]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Correction: You will receive some of my money taken via higher premiums and fines to support your healthcare until such time as I decide that I don't get paid enough to work, move to a warm state and live as a beach bum. Then you get nothing and the whole system goes the way of the Soviet Union.

Correction I will be using the money i put into the system by working my whole fucking life. And when you get skin cancer from your time on the beach you will then be using the money I put in there too.