Some BE stories and comics

[Muhznit]

Originally Posted by catfish27

"Logically"?!

If enough people figure "eh, why pay for the BESC when their content is going to be uploaded somewhere every couple of months," then they're not going to have enough revenue coming in to pay artists and writers to create new stories. And that doesn't have anything to do with how artists get paid.

I've said the solution before: Download quota + Teasers. Community meeting Download quota -> New content.

[PoisonElf]

Originally Posted by Blake Isaac Gordon

And one more thing, has anyone had any issues with PortalComic? The BESC's buisness plan is a slovenly bowel of spaghetti, but Portal's work is top notch- how is it possible to swipe from the BESC and NOT hurt Portal?

I was out of work for a while when mindcontrolcomics hit their creditcard snag and couldn't afford to produce more content.
Also, a reason why they stopped offering downloads was because it was appearing (literally) on other sites as soon as it was uploaded.

People don't think about the "little guy" when they're looking for their free ride.

Incidently, Fans of PortalComic should check out The Hidden Knowledge & The Green Sign on www.mindcontrolcomics.com (and Beyond Rubies! *self plug*)

[nothingclever]

I feel in this thread something, somewhere, somehow went terribly wrong.

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by nothingclever

I feel in this thread something, somewhere, somehow went terribly wrong.

I thought that since this site is centered in the United States, that people would take a hint that United States law and United States Fair Use Doctrine might apply. Looks like that's somehow the "shit-stirring" of the new century, because gods only know how the U.S. respects foreign policy (and I say that as a citizen, Mr. Cheney).

None of this should be construed to say that I in any way condone piracy, it's just that I get plenty more irked when it directly affects the community. Frankly, I find it disgusting that people are using the "poor plebes" concept to justify ripping off something they decidedly enjoy. Have a heart and send the creators a few dollars, at least.

[Lurking Guy]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

As far as I know, Lorekeep's always been against any activity that could cause his own business problems;

And there it is: the people of the forum only care about piracy when they lose money. Many people around here, including moderators, act like this has something to do with morality. It's simply a case of keeping the site from shutting down and to keep themselves out of poverty. Pretending it has anything to do with morality is silly, and allowing other instances of piracy all across the site is just hypocritical. I hate piracy, but this is just silly.

[Metatron]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

None of this should be construed to say that I in any way condone piracy, it's just that I get plenty more irked when it directly affects the community. Frankly, I find it disgusting that people are using the "poor plebes" concept to justify ripping off something they decidedly enjoy. Have a heart and send the creators a few dollars, at least.

So then do you condone the use of pirated clips that this site hosts which are against the law but "directly affects the community" by having them removed?

Originally Posted by Lurking Guy

And there it is: the people of the forum only care about piracy when they lose money. Many people around here, including moderators, act like this has something to do with morality. It's simply a case of keeping the site from shutting down and to keep themselves out of poverty. Pretending it has anything to do with morality is silly, and allowing other instances of piracy all across the site is just hypocritical. I hate piracy, but this is just silly.

Agreed on all counts.

Silliness is the charted territory this tread has entered.

[Blake Isaac Gordon]

Originally Posted by Metatron

So then do you condone the use of pirated clips that this site hosts which are against the law but "directly affects the community" by having them removed?

I have to ask, (Thus splitting hairs) I scanned some of the links but are any of these examples links to the 'entire work' in all its wholeness?

[Bareon]

WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL BUMPING THIS?

This topic should be dead and gone by now... >.> Instead its yet another "moral argumentation file" for the.... what.. 27 other argument threads that weren't enough?

All we need to do in a situation like this is to tell the Original Poster that we don't allow local artist's works to be exploited on these forums and END IT!
END IT PLEASE!

In other words, if you need to argue some more... we have a place for that, its called the Flame & Bullshit Forum

*sigh*

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by Bareon

In other words, if you need to argue some more... we have a place for that, its called the Flame & Bullshit Forum

Yes, where discussion that can lead to a mutual understanding can go to die! Still, if Lorekeep wants to split this off as necessary, that is his right as the forums administrator. A little respect wouldn't hurt.

Originally Posted by Metatron

So then do you condone the use of pirated clips that this site hosts which are against the law but "directly affects the community" by having them removed?

Not at all, but you're assuming that foreign policy overrides the right of a country to impose laws on its own citizens. Sure, jurisdictional issues are the same around the world, but it's important to understand that not every country takes such a dim view of "clips" over "wholesale ripoffs". Perhaps I should clarify: I'm plenty irritated when people attempt to claim the copyrights of others, but I can understand why someone might do so; anyone who claims they've never so much as downloaded a single MP3 is either a. lying, or b. completely ignorant of what "downloading" means in a modern legal context. No, I don't approve of thievery of another's work; but when it can be tied to direct financial losses that damage a larger community, I get downright pissed off about it.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about this, the more it pisses me off; Safe Harbor laws exist for a reason, and if YouTube or DailyMotion are hosting stolen clips, you have every right to take your complaint directly TO THEM. Honestly, when has complaining about thievery on an Internet forum EVER stopped it from taking place?

Originally Posted by Lurking Guy

And there it is: the people of the forum only care about piracy when they lose money. Many people around here, including moderators, act like this has something to do with morality. It's simply a case of keeping the site from shutting down and to keep themselves out of poverty. Pretending it has anything to do with morality is silly, and allowing other instances of piracy...

(and this, kids, is why you shouldn't edit posts with FoxTab installed and active)

I had a response here regarding Salem, Massachusetts in the 17th Century. The general idea was that "morality" is subjective, and shouldn't be used to dictate as absolute a concept as statutory law. Consensus of the masses and appropriate precedents are the only things that should be used to set the law, and that's going to vary across international borders.

[Metatron]

Originally Posted by Blake Isaac Gordon

I have to ask, (Thus splitting hairs) I scanned some of the links but are any of these examples links to the 'entire work' in all its wholeness?

I assume you mean the links I posted back on the other page. I will break them down
http://www.process-productions.com/f...ad.php?t=23343
while this one does not have the entire video it is a clip and is subject to the law of video piracy where the video must be playing either from the source (aka creator) or a broadcast station with permits to play such a video. Upon editing the video down a source citation must be added to the video in order for people to confirm where it was played and when. The video would only be viable for a week to two.

http://www.process-productions.com/f...ad.php?t=24178
This one is simply open and shut. Pictures cannot be posted with out the expressed written permission of the retailer or creator. In addition a link is posted to the full comic.

http://www.process-productions.com/f...ad.php?t=25378
As with the previous it is expressed written consent. I even notice my commentary after viewing the pirated images.

http://www.process-productions.com/f...ead.php?t=1668
The last is simply the same as the other two.

While it can be said that this site does not host some of these videos or pictures but they are on a sharefile the same can be said about the chan boards and several of them have been closed many times over.

Not at all, but you're assuming that foreign policy overrides the right of a country to impose laws on its own citizens. Sure, jurisdictional issues are the same around the world, but it's important to understand that not every country takes such a dim view of "clips" over "wholesale ripoffs". Perhaps I should clarify: I'm plenty irritated when people attempt to claim the copyrights of others, but I can understand why someone might do so; anyone who claims they've never so much as downloaded a single MP3 is either a. lying, or b. completely ignorant of what "downloading" means in a modern legal context. No, I don't approve of thievery of another's work; but when it can be tied to direct financial losses that damage a larger community, I get downright pissed off about it.

Yes but as stated this site is hosted in the US so it is subject to all laws in this country. The US is a little more hard nosed about piracy. As an example I dont know if any of you saw but a few days ago Empornium.us and PureTNA closed for good. It is still unclear as to why. Both were hosted here in the US and no news of their closing was mentioned in fact Empornium had discussed expanding. Most are certain that this is likely due to an increased legal pressure.

I suppose my primary reason for continuing this rant is that I worry that this site may fall victim.

[vincent_richter]

Metatron, I get the feeling throughout this discussion that you're privy to details of copyright law that the rest of us might not be. I don't suppose you might share some precedents, if only for my own edification?

Originally Posted by Metatron

while this one does not have the entire video it is a clip and is subject to the law of video piracy where the video must be playing either from the source (aka creator) or a broadcast station with permits to play such a video. Upon editing the video down a source citation must be added to the video in order for people to confirm where it was played and when. The video would only be viable for a week to two.

At the very least, this comment should be qualified in the proper legal context; if there's an established precedent that makes adding or editing brief video clips somehow NOT an established Fair Use - and thus, piracy / illegal - it would behoove the community to be aware of it, if only to keep from running afoul.

As for the photosets with no current domestic equivalent, I'm going to set aside WIPO for the sake of further discussion. It's not that I'm against the concept of individual property rights; it's just that we've spent more than three centuries developing viable international copyright law, and that shouldn't be set aside to further each member nation's controlling agenda. Even Walt Disney wasn't arrogant enough to assert a 100% international monopoly on Mickey Mouse in the early years.

Originally Posted by Metatron

While it can be said that this site does not host some of these videos or pictures but they are on a sharefile the same can be said about the chan boards and several of them have been closed many times over.

Which "chan" board are we referring to here? Ni-chan and similar boards got nailed repeatedly because they posted Japanese warez on sites centered in Japan, what'd they think would happen? Additionally, 4chan doesn't just rip off foreign material (not saying that that's okay, either, before anyone jumps on that bandwagon AGAIN), they ALSO loot domestic product, which AGAIN runs them afoul of domestic copyright law. Using those guys as established precedent of copyright enforcement is a REALLY bad idea, simply because there's NEVER a gray area with them.

Originally Posted by Metatron

Yes but as stated this site is hosted in the US so it is subject to all laws in this country. The US is a little more hard nosed about piracy.

So are Iran and China, and yes that IS hyperbole, but I trust you get the idea.

Originally Posted by Metatron

Most are certain that this is likely due to an increased legal pressure.

Increased legal pressure != actually doing anything illegal. For an example, I could mount an affirmative motion that you defamed my character by implying my ignorance of the PureTNA situation (not that I would ), but does that make you guilty or even mean that you actually did anything illegal? It's about time that the whole "guilty until proven innocent" bullshit about anything electronic comes to an end.

Originally Posted by Metatron

I suppose my primary reason for continuing this rant is that I worry that this site may fall victim.

That, at least, is fair; I often worry the same, which is why I want to be proactive about things that DEFINITELY fall into the realm of domestic piracy. Beyond that, I find it highly offensive when I get called out for doing so, and I consider it even worse when I get called out for not having thorough knowledge of foreign policy. It's not that I don't care about artists' rights, it's simply that I actually *have* a day job, and there simply aren't enough hours in the day for me to both further my legal knowledge and put in my 40 hours of labor.

[Metatron]

Metatron, I get the feeling throughout this discussion that you're privy to details of copyright law that the rest of us might not be. I don't suppose you might share some precedents, if only for my own edification?

Yes and no. I am privy on the knowledge of what can and cannot be. To cite precedent would take time but can be done. To make a long story short. I have helped the EM on several occasions curb stomp certain groups who found it enjoyable to pirated material. As of late I have had little time due to the demands of work.

Which "chan" board are we referring to here? Ni-chan and similar boards got nailed repeatedly because they posted Japanese warez on sites centered in Japan, what'd they think would happen? Additionally, 4chan doesn't just rip off foreign material (not saying that that's okay, either, before anyone jumps on that bandwagon AGAIN), they ALSO loot domestic product, which AGAIN runs them afoul of domestic copyright law. Using those guys as established precedent of copyright enforcement is a REALLY bad idea, simply because there's NEVER a gray area with them.
[

No not 4 or Ni
While I am unaware of your preferences I am sure you know of a board called bbw chan and a late board called ssbbw chan. BBW chan has gone though 3 to 4 changes (not sure where they are now) and ssbbw chan is currently offline. These boards have and recently trafficked in pirated and legal bbw/ssbbw porn. they have been closed several times over due to their hosting of pictures and links to share material

So are Iran and China, and yes that IS hyperbole, but I trust you get the idea.

I think it would be more accurate to say that those sites would never be picked up by a spider; and would be subject to deletion upon government finding.

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Increased legal pressure != actually doing anything illegal. For an example, I could mount an affirmative motion that you defamed my character by implying my ignorance of the PureTNA situation

While you could affirm such a motion it would not be viable. For a person to say, "I don't know if any of you saw," makes the claim that for me it was unclear but to clarify to those who were unaware. Plus if such a claim were even to be picked up by a lawyer the filling of a demure would assure that the case would never see a court room.