Fukushima still leaking radiation

[Drachen]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

Well, not really.

I didn't say they were all perfectly healthy. They are thriving compared to surrounding areas and compared to what that part of Ukraine was like before the accident. That area was a swamp and was cleared and drained for farmland in the early 20th century. That means wolf and beaver hunts on a massive Soviet-style scale and massive habitat destruction. Now there are wolf packs living and breeding within the Zone. European bison were re-introduced a few years ago.

It's pretty clear at this point that the immediate danger posed by the radiation is less than from the humans themselves.

[Prof_Sai]

Originally Posted by Kvasir

I don't ever partake in drinking ocean water to begin with,

Unless you are getting your water from mars, everything you have ever eaten or drank was sea water recently. Where do you think rain comes from? It's almost certain you've got a few atoms of Deuterium from Fukushima in your body right now.

Originally Posted by Kvasir

I have to start this off with how many other things would we of had to write off if they failed? Planes, Cars, Telephones, the internet, modern medicine, people, etc.

Again you keep missing the time scale here. A crashed car stops being dangerous after the crash is over. It doesn't keep creating poisons a thousand years later.

Originally Posted by Kvasir

Okay, is your argument here that environmentalists AREN'T opposing Nuclear energy? Like, they all got together and went "Yeah, we're cool with that."? I have to assume I'm misunderstanding your sentiment here...

Please try harder to understand. Gladewalker said that radiation comes from coal too, implying that we were treating that radiation differently from radiation from nuclear plants. My reply was that no, environmentalists oppose coal and nuclear equally for the same reasons. The lack of movie monsters is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Kvasir

...but to just write off nuclear technology because sometimes it gets broken seems like such a short sighted view point.

Short sighted is refusing to acknowledge how long these nuclear disasters will continue to be dangerous.

Originally Posted by Kvasir

We've just got to figure out how to do it without, you know, not asking for help when its actually needed. That's what I take away from the story here, 2 years went by and they couldn't own up to the fact they couldn't actually contain it. What if in the first week they had asked for help, I'm willing to bet the incident would of been handled far better.

If we're going to use this kind of dangerous technology we have to be willing to work together, but as long as we're not that's when crap is going to go down.

Why would you assume that Fukushima will be the last time humans do stupid things and place ego and profit over safety? A bad engineer will blame weak materials when his structure breaks. A good one will measure the material strength first, and redesign the structure to work with what he has got. Humans fail in predictable ways, and any plan that requires them not to fail is doomed.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by Drachen

I didn't say they were all perfectly healthy. They are thriving compared to surrounding areas and compared to what that part of Ukraine was like before the accident. That area was a swamp and was cleared and drained for farmland in the early 20th century. That means wolf and beaver hunts on a massive Soviet-style scale and massive habitat destruction. Now there are wolf packs living and breeding within the Zone. European bison were re-introduced a few years ago.

It's pretty clear at this point that the immediate danger posed by the radiation is less than from the humans themselves.

I see, so it's 'comparative thriving'. Humans aren't in the area to hunt these animals so their populations grow, but they're still all sick and suffering from horrible radiation. Let's not pretend they're doing well, they're living on poisoned ground, breathing poisoned air, and drinking poisoned water. They're sick and suffering and will not live the kind of lifespan they would normally. I'm not sure we can honestly say they're 'benefiting' from the lack of human presence. If the accident hadn't happened there would be far fewer animals in the area, that much is true, but those few that were there would not be radioactive.

[Drachen]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

They're sick and suffering and will not live the kind of lifespan they would normally.

"Radioactive" does not automatically mean "sick and suffering". We're not talking about radiation sickness here. Low doses of radiation over a long period of time doesn't affect an organism the same way a huge burst like what happened right after the accident. The wolves do seem to be thriving and the ones featured on this Nature episode seemed to be healthy. They probably do have a higher incidence of birth defects and cancer than a population outside a radioactive zone, but we don't know. The long-term studies of the area are just starting. What we do know is that the Exclusion Zone isn't a total dead zone. It sure as hell isn't S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

You can't possibly know about the lifespan of creatures within the Zone because the scientists studying the Zone do not know.

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

If the accident hadn't happened there would be far fewer animals in the area, that much is true, but those few that were there would not be radioactive.

Yes. They would not be radioactive.

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by Drachen

"Radioactive" does not automatically mean "sick and suffering". We're not talking about radiation sickness here. Low doses of radiation over a long period of time doesn't affect an organism the same way a huge burst like what happened right after the accident. The wolves do seem to be thriving and the ones featured on this Nature episode seemed to be healthy. They probably do have a higher incidence of birth defects and cancer than a population outside a radioactive zone, but we don't know. The long-term studies of the area are just starting. What we do know is that the Exclusion Zone isn't a total dead zone. It sure as hell isn't S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

You can't possibly know about the lifespan of creatures within the Zone because the scientists studying the Zone do not know.



Yes. They would not be radioactive.

If you love The Exclusion Zone so much why don't you just marry it then?

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

If you love The Exclusion Zone so much why don't you just marry it then?

Oi! If there's any smartassery to be 'ad 'ere, it'll be by me!

Originally Posted by Drachen

"Radioactive" does not automatically mean "sick and suffering". We're not talking about radiation sickness here. Low doses of radiation over a long period of time doesn't affect an organism the same way a huge burst like what happened right after the accident. The wolves do seem to be thriving and the ones featured on this Nature episode seemed to be healthy. They probably do have a higher incidence of birth defects and cancer than a population outside a radioactive zone, but we don't know. The long-term studies of the area are just starting. What we do know is that the Exclusion Zone isn't a total dead zone. It sure as hell isn't S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

You can't possibly know about the lifespan of creatures within the Zone because the scientists studying the Zone do not know.



Yes. They would not be radioactive.

If you love The Exclusion Zone so much why don't you just marry it then?

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Oi! If there's any smartassery to be 'ad 'ere, it'll be by me!

You're the reason scientists are hard at work on a machine to let us slap faces across the internet.

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

You're the reason scientists are hard at work on a machine to let us slap faces across the internet.

Who says I'm not one of 'em?

EDIT: Obviously, you've not yet seen the prototype!
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...slow-slaps.htm

Now, assuming that bad boy uses RS-232 for calibration and control, you could - in theory - couple that to an RJ-45 / CAT-5 adapter and effectively slap someone's face over the Internet. From there, it's simply an issue for quantum mechanics to figure out how to transmit the energy of the slap over the wire and to the designated victim's face.

[Drachen]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Now, assuming that bad boy uses RS-232 for calibration and control, you could - in theory - couple that to an RJ-45 / CAT-5 adapter and effectively slap someone's face over the Internet.

RS-232? You stuck in 1996 or something?

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Who says I'm not one of 'em?

EDIT: Obviously, you've not yet seen the prototype!
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...slow-slaps.htm

Now, assuming that bad boy uses RS-232 for calibration and control, you could - in theory - couple that to an RJ-45 / CAT-5 adapter and effectively slap someone's face over the Internet. From there, it's simply an issue for quantum mechanics to figure out how to transmit the energy of the slap over the wire and to the designated victim's face.

Well, you could rig a silicone face with an accelerometer to detect the force of the slap on one end of the connection and use a pneumatic actuator with that silicone hand to deliver the slap on the other end of it.

[vincent_richter]

Originally Posted by Drachen

RS-232? You stuck in 1996 or something?

Nope, just insanely cheap, as any good researcher should be (I believe the more common term is "frugal")! Why pick up a $20 cable that requires further effort to map, when DB9s can easily be salvaged and have thoroughly mapped pinouts?

Originally Posted by TF-Viewer

Well, you could rig a silicone face with an accelerometer to detect the force of the slap on one end of the connection and use a pneumatic actuator with that silicone hand to deliver the slap on the other end of it.

Seems a little like buying a mugger the knife he uses to rob you.
If you can take the end device out of the equation, but still deliver the expected result, think of how surprised the subject will be when they get face-slapped out of the ether!

[TF-Viewer]

Originally Posted by vincent_richter

Nope, just insanely cheap, as any good researcher should be (I believe the more common term is "frugal")! Why pick up a $20 cable that requires further effort to map, when DB9s can easily be salvaged and have thoroughly mapped pinouts?



Seems a little like buying a mugger the knife he uses to rob you.
If you can take the end device out of the equation, but still deliver the expected result, think of how surprised the subject will be when they get face-slapped out of the ether!

Unfortunately there doesn't exist any means to generate force at a remote location without a mechanism to provide that force. So unless you come up with a way to circumvent the laws of physics you're going to have to settle for having a physical object on the other end to deliver the blow.